[time-nuts] ebay: Lucent WP-92066 L10 RFG-XO

CHazlitt chazlitt at mtaonline.net
Fri Sep 28 22:33:31 EDT 2007 

If anyone is looking for a 10 MHz oscillator assembly out of a Lucent clock 
standard for cell sites ebay has one listed. search under
"LUCENT WP-92066 L10 RFG-XO"  - The lady who is selling them has about 30 of 
them left. I bought one and it has an Efratom 10 MHz XO in it.
I had her take pictures of the circuit boards inside the unit so if you want 
to take a look she can probably email them to you. I don't know what I
did with the photos she sent me (maybe deleted) but I can take a photo of 
the one I bought from her if need be. Just email me off board and I'll
get the camera out.

Chris KL7FB



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <time-nuts-request at febo.com>
To: <time-nuts at febo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 4:26 PM
Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 38, Issue 41


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Magnus Danielson)
>   2. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK at aol.com)
>   3. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK at aol.com)
>   4. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (ernieperes at aol.com)
>   5. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK at aol.com)
>   6. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Bruce Griffiths)
>   7. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Scott Mace)
>   8. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK at aol.com)
>   9. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (SAIDJACK at aol.com)
>  10. Re: Setting Rubidium to match GPS source (Hal Murray)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:10:35 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: time-nuts at febo.com, peterawson at earthlink.net
> Message-ID: <20070928.181035.287274618.cfmd at bredband.net>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> From: "Pete" <peterawson at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:07:29 -0600
> Message-ID: <000e01c801e1$4da7efa0$0200a8c0 at BASE1>
>
> Pete,
>
>> Using oscilloscopes to measure relative phase has been widely
>> used for a long time. The setup appears in many H-P Op/Srv
>> manuals in the adjustment procedure section to calibrate the
>> instrument timebase to a shop standard.
>>
>> But, it's not a useful technique for settings more precise than
>> 1 or 2E-10  in the best situation.
>>
>> The process degrades badly as the 'scope sweep speed
>> increases past 10ns/div since a 10MHz sinewave slope is
>> approaching a rather flat line. Watching 2 rather flat lines
>> for precise zero crossings isn't as simple as it seems. In
>> addition, any noise/drift or outright shifts in vertical position
>> obscure the result & aren't unusual during a 16 minute window.
>
> This is why you gain up both channels more and more. This converts them 
> more
> into vertical lines again and you can zoom in more. However, my experience 
> is
> that evenetually the 1/f phase-noise will become so apparent that the 
> average
> motion due to frequency error becomes harder to detect by eye.
>
> The method is thus still limited. We have better methods available (i.e.
> various TIC systems).
>
>> Delayed sweep operation just adds more uncertainty, so
>> you end up waiting for the phase difference to drift to the
>> point that both traces are displayed in the same window.
>> But now, they won't stay there for 16 minutes, unless they're
>> already VERY close to matching. The whole process demands
>> that you walk your way down to locking up the 2 sources.
>> It's more painful than it sounds!
>
> Can be. The delayed trigger window as such only require a short-term 
> stability
> and for 10 MHz we are talking about up to 100 ns. Just as with a 
> time-error
> estimator for a TIC.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:43:57 EDT
> From: SAIDJACK at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Message-ID: <cbf.14e73e6c.342ec18d at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time,
> hmurray at megapathdsl.net writes:
>
>>In  this context, how stable is a GPSDO?  If I used a Cesium for the sync
>>input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it  wander
>>back and forth for a day?
>
>
>
> Hi HMurray,
>
> depends on the GPSDO. On the Fury for example you can expect the unit to
> wander less than +-15ns back and forth over a period of 1 Day. That's a
> deviation of about 3.5E-013 or so per 24 hours.
>
> This wander depends on how good the hold position is that is set inside 
> the
> GPSDO's GPS receiver, as well as the stability of the OCXO, and the 
> quality of
> the GPS receiver.
>
> All standard GPS receivers have problems with height:
>
> We see a range of about +-2 Meters max on the height on the Motorola M12+
> receiver on different Fury units for example. The newer M12M 
> motorola/iLotus
> receiver is slightly better than this.
>
> This would lead to a worst case error of up to 12ns just due to this 
> antenna
> position error, slightly more than a good Cesium would wander.
>
> Said
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:48:58 EDT
> From: SAIDJACK at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Message-ID: <cf0.1be3cc03.342ec2ba at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time,
> hmurray at megapathdsl.net writes:
>
>>In  this context, how stable is a GPSDO?  If I used a Cesium for the sync
>>input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it  wander
>>back and forth for a day?
>
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> forgot to mention: the Fury GPSDO is now available as an OEM PCB with  SMA
> connectors to connect an external OCXO, rather than have one on-board. Any
> steerable 10MHz Oscillator will work, such as Rb's, and even Cesiums with 
> EFC
> input.
>
> Would anyone be interested in these PCB's as a building block for a "home
> made" GPSDO? All that needs to be done is connect an OCXO you may  have 
> laying
> around using the SMA connections, add power and antenna, and  the hardware 
> is
> done. The software can be adjusted to match and  fine-tune different OCXO
> parameters via an RS-232 terminal, and SCPI  (English language) commands.
>
> We are planning to offer these for slightly less than $600 each, and if
> enough interest is here then we may be able to offer a discount for 
> time-nuts.
>
> Let me know,
> thanks,
> Said
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:12:01 -0400
> From: ernieperes at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Message-ID: <8C9D02B59028501-DA8-DE3 at WEBMAIL-DC21.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Hi SAID,
>
>
>
> I am interested about this OEM PCB with external OCXO, due to the reason I 
> have 3 HP OCXO 10811 and the other one, so please put me on the waiting 
> list.
>
>
>
> Many thanks and best regards,
>
>
>
> Ernie. HG5ED
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SAIDJACK at aol.com
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Sent: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:48 pm
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time,
> hmurray at megapathdsl.net writes:
>
>>In  this context, how stable is a GPSDO?  If I used a Cesium for the sync
>>input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it  wander
>>back and forth for a day?
>
>
>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> forgot to mention: the Fury GPSDO is now available as an OEM PCB with  SMA
> connectors to connect an external OCXO, rather than have one on-board. Any
> steerable 10MHz Oscillator will work, such as Rb's, and even Cesiums with 
> EFC
> input.
>
> Would anyone be interested in these PCB's as a building block for a "home
> made" GPSDO? All that needs to be done is connect an OCXO you may  have 
> laying
> around using the SMA connections, add power and antenna, and  the hardware 
> is
> done. The software can be adjusted to match and  fine-tune different OCXO
> parameters via an RS-232 terminal, and SCPI  (English language) commands.
>
> We are planning to offer these for slightly less than $600 each, and if
> enough interest is here then we may be able to offer a discount for 
> time-nuts.
>
> Let me know,
> thanks,
> Said
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
> http://mail.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:24:04 EDT
> From: SAIDJACK at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Cc: saidjack at jackson-labs.com
> Message-ID: <ca9.19561515.342ed904 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2007 14:13:34 Pacific Daylight Time,
> ernieperes at aol.com writes:
>
>
>>I am interested about this OEM PCB with external OCXO, due to  the reason 
>>I
> have 3 HP OCXO >10811 and the other one, so please put me on  the waiting 
> list.
>
>
>
>
> Hi Ernie,
>
> no problem, 10811's are great. Will let you know.
>
> Our EFC output is 0V to 5V, so you can set the 10811 with the mechanical
> adjust to have a nominal voltage of 2.5V, I did that to one of my 10811's, 
> works
> perfectly.
>
> Fury supports both positive and negative EFC slope via software command, 
> so
> anything that can use 0V to 5V and has 10MHz output should work.
>
> If an OCXO needs -5V to 5V (some Wenzels need that for example) then a
> simple external Opamp circuit can shift the range from unipolar to 
> bipolar.
>
> bye,
> Said
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:01:45 +1200
> From: Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <46FD87D9.3040206 at xtra.co.nz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
>> Hi HMurray,
>>
>> depends on the GPSDO. On the Fury for example you can expect the unit to
>> wander less than +-15ns back and forth over a period of 1 Day. That's a
>> deviation of about 3.5E-013 or so per 24 hours.
>>
>> This wander depends on how good the hold position is that is set inside 
>> the
>> GPSDO's GPS receiver, as well as the stability of the OCXO, and the 
>> quality of
>>  the GPS receiver.
>>
>> All standard GPS receivers have problems with height:
>>
>> We see a range of about +-2 Meters max on the height on the Motorola M12+
>> receiver on different Fury units for example. The newer M12M 
>> motorola/iLotus
>> receiver is slightly better than this.
>>
>> This would lead to a worst case error of up to 12ns just due to this 
>> antenna
>> position error, slightly more than a good Cesium would wander.
>>
>> Said
>>
>>
>>
> Said
>
> Where does the 12ns figure come from?
>
> Surely a height error of 2m leads to a timing error of about 6.6ns for a
> particular SV when that SV is directly overhead.
> When the SV isnt directly overhead a 2m error in height contributes less
> error than this to the slant range and the corresponding propagation
> delay error from the SV to the antenna will be less than 6.6ns.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:12:10 -0500
> From: Scott Mace <smace at intt.net>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <46FD8A4A.3030506 at intt.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Put me on the list.  I'm interested in using it with LPRO-101 units.
>
> Scott
>
> SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
>> ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
>> Errors-To: time-nuts-bounces+smace=intt.net at febo.com RETRY
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 9/28/2007 02:07:08 Pacific Daylight Time,
>> hmurray at megapathdsl.net writes:
>>
>>> In  this context, how stable is a GPSDO?  If I used a Cesium for the 
>>> sync
>>> input, how much fuzz would I see on a GPSDO output if I watched it 
>>> wander
>>> back and forth for a day?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> forgot to mention: the Fury GPSDO is now available as an OEM PCB with 
>> SMA
>> connectors to connect an external OCXO, rather than have one on-board. 
>> Any
>> steerable 10MHz Oscillator will work, such as Rb's, and even Cesiums with 
>> EFC
>> input.
>>
>> Would anyone be interested in these PCB's as a building block for a "home
>> made" GPSDO? All that needs to be done is connect an OCXO you may  have 
>> laying
>> around using the SMA connections, add power and antenna, and  the 
>> hardware is
>> done. The software can be adjusted to match and  fine-tune different OCXO
>> parameters via an RS-232 terminal, and SCPI  (English language) commands.
>>
>> We are planning to offer these for slightly less than $600 each, and if
>> enough interest is here then we may be able to offer a discount for 
>> time-nuts.
>>
>> Let me know,
>> thanks,
>> Said
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ************************************** See what's new at 
>> http://www.aol.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:08:52 EDT
> From: SAIDJACK at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Message-ID: <c35.1e7553ad.342ef194 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2007 16:14:00 Pacific Daylight Time, 
> smace at intt.net
> writes:
>
>>Put  me on the list.  I'm interested in using it with LPRO-101  units.
>
>>    Scott
>
>
> Got it Scott,
>
> bye,
> Said
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 20:07:50 EDT
> From: SAIDJACK at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Message-ID: <cc5.1d8a5045.342ef156 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2007 16:02:30 Pacific Daylight Time,
> bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz writes:
>
> Surely a  height error of 2m leads to a timing error of about 6.6ns for a
> particular  SV when that SV is directly overhead.
> When the SV isnt directly overhead a  2m error in height contributes less
> error than this to the slant range and  the corresponding propagation
> delay error from the SV to the antenna will  be less than 6.6ns.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> it's not 2m, it's about +-2m = 4m :)
>
> bye,
> Said
>
>
>
> ************************************** See what's new at 
> http://www.aol.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:26:48 -0700
> From: Hal Murray <hmurray at megapathdsl.net>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Setting Rubidium to match GPS source
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Message-ID: <20070929002649.91EDFBE29 at ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>> Our EFC output is 0V to 5V, so you can set the 10811 with the
>> mechanical adjust to have a nominal voltage of 2.5V, I did that to
>> one of my 10811's, works perfectly.
>
>> If an OCXO needs -5V to 5V (some Wenzels need that for example) then
>> a simple external Opamp circuit can shift the range from unipolar to
>> bipolar.
>
> How stable is a typical well-designed DAC output over temperature and
> whatever?
>
> What about a couple of extra op-amps?
>
>
> Do any OCXO vendors offer the DAC inside the oven with a digital 
> interface?
> That seems like the obvious way to reduce temperature dependencies.
>
>
>
> -- 
> These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts at febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 38, Issue 41
> *****************************************

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