[time-nuts] Neutrinos not so fast? (defectove connector)

[Tom Holmes]

I'm sure are all aware that in the general perceptions of the world, there
are great scientific achievements and disastrous engineering failures. Never
the other way around.

Yeah, I'm an engineer.

Tom Holmes, N8ZM
Tipp City, OH
EM79


> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Tom Knox
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 2:47 PM
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrinos not so fast? (defectove connector)
> 
> 
> It is hard to believe that they would go public with such earth shaking
results
> based on a single GPS timebase, but I have found it is easy to focus on
the test
> head and neglect the back end of an experiment. I must also admit it is
even
> worse science for someone sitting in Boulder Co like myself to second
guess
> these brilliant researchers without all the facts. In any case I am really
look
> forward to the cause of this mystery. I hope public will judge CERN on
their
> successes and understand that in science there is really no such thing as
a
> mistake if we learn from it.
> 
> Thomas Knox
> 
> 
> 
> > To: time-nuts at febo.com
> > From: gwinn at raytheon.com
> > Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:57:11 -0500
> > CC: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrinos not so fast? (defectove connector)
> >
> >
> > A possible mechanism occurs to me.  High-precision GPS is very
> > vulnerable to multipath errors.  A loos connector will have a
significant
> reflection.
> > The reflected energy will propagate backwards, and be reflected off
> > the transmitter output discontinuity, the twice-reflected energy
> > propagating back to the receiver.  The original and the triple-transit
> > echo will add coherently (for the modulation, not the photons)  in the
> > receiver.  This is a perfect multipath scenario.  How long must the
> > cable be?  Depends on the relative strength of main signal and
triple-transit
> echo.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
> >
> >
> > time-nuts-bounces at febo.com wrote on 02/22/2012 06:31:54 PM:
> >
> > > From: Jim Palfreyman <jim77742 at gmail.com>
> > > To: richard at karlquist.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency
> > > measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
> > > Date: 02/22/2012 06:32 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrinos not so fast? (defectove
> > > connector) Sent by: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
> > >
> > > Maybe the loose connector meant the clock at one end *never* synced
> > > with the GPS and just happened to be 60ns fast. Tighten the
> > > connecter, clock resyncs, problem solved.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > On 23 February 2012 09:57, Rick Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > > Maybe they checked the connector by replacing the whole fiber
> > > > optic cable with a new one, and while doing that had the "oh sh.."
> > > > moment of realizing the length of the old one was 20 meters
> > > > different than it was supposed to be.
> > > > I think this sort of thing has happened to all of us with
> > > > significant experience.  Or maybe the cable was marked with an
> > > > incorrect length (not due to error by the experimenters) and they
> > > > forgot "trust but verify".  We've probably all gotten bit by that
> > > > one as well.
> > > >
> > > > Rick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> > > > > In message
> > > <9A458DBA-3875-43B2-8383-5CA2F86BE8E2 at leapsecond.com>, "Tom
> > > > Van
> > > > > Baak
> > > > >  (lab)" writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >>Could be on the electrical side of the adapter, not the optical
> > > > >>side. It's not impossible to get 60 ns of phase or trigger error
> > > > >>with RF connectors.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't buy that explanation.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's very hard to get 60 ns *consistent* phase or trigger error,
> > > > > with any kind of connector, almost no matter how you go about it.
> > > > >
> > > > > 20m of extra fiber sounds *much* more plausible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Inventing an excuse about a loose connector to cover up the
> > > > > mistake sounds even more plausible.
> > > > >
> > > > > You really don't want to defend your phd dissertation, being
> > > > > known as the idiot who made a fool of both CERN and SanGrasso in
one
> go.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> > > > > phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> > > > > FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> > > > > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
> > > > > incompetence.
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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