[time-nuts] The Demise of LORAN (was Re: Reference oscillator accuracy)

mike cook michael.cook at wanadoo.fr
Sat Nov 14 23:17:49 UTC 2009


I was thinking about the costs side as well. From the 2010 budget info I 
have been able to find, "The savings could top $36 million in 2010", with 
something like $190M over the following 5 years.

I think that the GPS birds are far more than that to maintain and replace. I 
found the following in a May 2009 article which indicates there may even be 
some question on the GPS service quality in the near future.

The U.S. Government Accountability Office has identified that the USAF-run 
GPS satellite constellation is in trouble. There are currently 30 satellites 
in orbit, the 24 needed for the system and six spares, which sounds like 
enough to run the system. The problem is that many of the satellites are 
getting old and will need replacing soon or will fail. The USAF has a 
program to replace the satellites, but it is US$1B over budget and almost 
three years behind schedule.

U.S. Government Accountability Office recently said that it "is uncertain 
whether the air force will be able to acquire new satellites in time to 
maintain current GPS service without interruption...there will be an 
increased likelihood that in 2010, as old satellites begin to fail, the 
overall GPS constellation will fall below the number of satellites required 
to provide the level of GPS service that the U.S. government commits to."

Why not keep LORAN and drop one spare bird.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J. Forster" <jfor at quik.com>
To: "Don Latham" <djl at montana.com>
Cc: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
<time-nuts at febo.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The Demise of LORAN (was Re: Reference oscillator 
accuracy)


>
> OK, so who is in a position to MAKE them care? How about those who
> understand this is a Homeland Security (among other) issue? Perhaps FOX
> news?
>
> Likely LORAN costs about as much a year as a mile of fence along the
> Mexican border, probably less.
>
> FWIW,
> -John
>
> ================
>
>> You've hit it on the nose. NONE of them are interested in anything but
>> social issues. LORAN will not get any of them re-elected, and that's all
>> any of 'em care about.
>> Don
>>
>> J. Forster
>>> Does anybody know who in Congress might take the lead in reversing the
>>> decision? None of the reps in this state are at all likely to give a
>>> damn.
>>> Their interest is apparently only in social issues.
>>>
>>> -John
>>>
>>> =====================
>>>
>>>> AOPA is pushing congress to repristinate funding for LORAN. General
>>>> aviation is probably the heaviest user on this Nav system. The
>>>> aviation user community would love to see Nav systems with integrated
>>>> LORAN and GPS capabilty, but the industry has done little in this
>>>> area, due to lack of government commitment to LORAN. The FAA knows the
>>>> GPS can be easily jammed, but has done nothing do push LORAN as the
>>>> GPS backup system.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 14, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Christopher Hoover <ch at murgatroid.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David I. Emery wrote:
>>>>>> I have emailed my brother in law who is a rear admiral (I think
>>>>>> now called a vice admiral) and currently CFO of the USCG (and as a
>>>>>> note
>>>>>> re your alma mater a MIT Sloan grad) and rather loudly said so
>>>>>> myself.  He most likely was part of the group that made the
>>>>>> decision... I intend
>>>>>> to ask him why they did it when I next see him.
>>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> I see three possibilities: a) modernization (E-LORAN), b) maintain
>>>>> existing service and capabilities, c) shut it down.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be helpful to know if USCG supports the plan to shut the
>>>>> system down.
>>>>> If USCG does not, those of us who are US citizens can lobby Congress
>>>>> to restore funding for the service.   There's an educational piece
>>>>> here to do.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -ch
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
>> Six Mile Systems LLP
>> 17850 Six Mile Road
>> POB 134
>> Huson, MT, 59846
>> VOX 406-626-4304
>> www.lightningforensics.com
>> www.sixmilesystems.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
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