[time-nuts] Archiving Timing Data

scmcgrath at gmail.com scmcgrath at gmail.com
Sun Jan 9 17:27:53 UTC 2011

Have you thought of using RRD (Round Robin Database).

RRD is a CSV format which stores value vs time and is generally used for archiving network performance data which is generally kept for years.  This format has the advantage of compactness and arbitrary x y scaling.

MRTG (Multi-Router Traffic Grapher) is probably the best known application
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Camp <lists at rtty.us>
Sender: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 12:15:30 
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<time-nuts at febo.com>
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
	<time-nuts at febo.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Archiving Timing Data


I'm sitting here running data on a bunch of TBolts and the like. Might that data be useful to others - maybe. Could it be useful 100 years from not - doubtful. I have the ability to create enormous amounts of likely useless trivia. To me the burring the useful nugget in the mountain of trivia is the bigger issue. It's the librarian, not the library that we need more than ever. 

Without a process for cataloging, indexing, and retrieving data - it's as good as lost. Finding and identifying data from a year or two back - forget it. Storage / duplication is (as mentioned in another post) is cheap and easy. Indexing and cataloging is what makes sure the stuff is retained and useful. 

Yes I will eventually get to the point ....

I doubt very much I'm the only one taking a mountain of timing data and not properly cataloging it. My guess is that maybe > 90% of the list members are in the same boat. How about:

1) A set of not to restrictive data format standards (CSV with a few restrictions ...)
2) A simple / brief method of  identifying that data (likely fancier than a text file)
3) A list repository to stuff it away in and retrieve it from. 
4) A (to be written) database app to let you rummage around and find things

There are a number of *very* nice software programs out there that a lot of us use. Ideally the "magic standard" format would eventually wok (at least for export) from all of them. 


On Jan 7, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Perry Sandeen wrote:

> List,
> I apologize in advance for my long posting
> Several weeks ago I posted what were my attempts to save data and my school-of hard-knocks learning curve.  Unfortunately several posters just had to nit-pick the process I had used and started a long series of posts and counter-posts about the process while totally missing the message.  So I’m going to walk through this again hopefully for the edification of the majority.
> Just several days ago a 10 year old Canadian girl discovered a super-nova while studying photographic images.  Observations by the world’s two most powerful earth based telescopes confirmed here discovery. 
> Now consider the case of the Antikythera mechanism.  It was close to 2,000 years ahead of what was eventually developed in Europe.  Most likely we never knew about it was that the library in Alexandria Egypt was joyfully burned three times by religious idiots [see Wikipedia].
> This mechanism was so complicated and accurate that as least passing knowledge, if not some or all of its drawings, would have been there.  In context to the science of that time, it ranked up with what the Hubble telescope accomplished for science today.
> Which brings us here to today.
> Governments and private businesses are storing millions of tons of written documents in the evacuated chambers of salt mines of the world [see Wikipedia].  This does beg the question of where the inventory lists are stored.  The reason for this is that no other archival grade of mass storage really exists.  The last method that I’m aware of is black & white polyester microfilm which is rated at 500 years.  With the almost total transition to digital cameras, there is no financial incentive to produce the necessary film stock to continue that process.
> NASA has lost large amounts of acquired data as no equipment now exists to read the information.
> Current CD/ DVD media is no solution.  A 2004 report published in the Journal of Research of the National Institute of Standards and Technology entitled "Stability Comparison of Recordable Optical Discs-A Study of Error Rates in Harsh Conditions."  You can read it yourself at http://nvl-p.nist.gov/pub/nistpubs/jres/109/5/j95sla.pdf.
> Until someone invents a stabilized glass DVD and perhaps a holographic laser beam to create the needed pits W/O chemicals (embedded gold maybe?) archival data storage W/O paper is a crap-shoot. 
> So where am I going with all this?  Glad you asked.
> No one knows if their or others data will lead to a new discovery or process.  Da Vinci certainly didn’t.  It can however; lead to learning that can then can be taken to the next level of knowledge and invention.
> Words cannot express my gratefulness to those who have taken the considerable effort and expense to post science information and support technical lists such as this on the net as well as the posters who have kindly shared their knowledge with us.
> I just hope it doesn’t get lost.
> End of Rant.  I now get off my soapbox and return you to your normal programming. 
> Regards,
> Perrier  
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