# [time-nuts] No more 60Hz! TEC Elimination

J. Forster jfor at quik.com
Sat Jun 25 02:26:34 UTC 2011

```Line voltage variations is why reglated power supplies were invented.

The point is that a small frequency change is not going to blow transformers.

-John

===================

> John,
>
> That's true, but can the secondary voltage stand to drop that much? Let's
> say we have a 12 volt regulated circuit, and the design engineer used the
> minimum input voltage to the regulator of 13.4 volts, or 1.4 volts over
> the
> regulated value needed (I've seen this done). Dropping the line from say
> 120 Vac to 100 Vac would drop the secondary DC down to around 11.2 to 11.4
> Vdc, well under the minimum supply voltage of 13.4 Vdc, and under the
> regulated value. When you get into plate transformers, with high winding
> ratios, the voltage drop gets a good bit different. However, I should have
> said, one should never run a 60 Hz transformer, or motor, on the same line
> voltage it was rated for at a lower 50 Hz.
>
> Best,
>
> Will
>
>
> On 6/24/2011 at 7:03 PM J. Forster wrote:
>
>>I'd severly doubt they'd allow anything like 10%.
>>
>>Also remember that the peak flux, that determins saturation, is the
>>integral of I dT, so you can run a 60 Hz transformer at 50 Hz if you
>>reduce the input to 100 VAC instead of 120 VAC.
>>
>>-John
>>
>>===================
>>
>>
>>> We have AEP here, but it's like you said, go out in the country where
>>> Buckeye Rual Elect. is, and you have outages all the time, and you
>>> don't
>>> want to live there in the winter.
>>>
>>> Clocks is not what I'm concerned over as much as certain pieces of
>>> industrial equipment that must rotate at a certain speed, or are
> supposed
>>> to. Also, if they are going to allow the frequency to get slower, any
>>> motor, or transformer, needs more iron in it, and just a 10 Hz
> difference
>>> is enough to amount to a significant increase in iron. One can easily
> use
>>> a
>>> 50 Hz transformer on 60 Hz, but not a 60 Hz on 50 Hz. The speed
> difference
>>> in motors from 50 Hz to 60 Hz would be around 1.2%, just roughly
> guessing
>>> it in my head, at 1800 RPM, and we don't know how much they intend to
>>> allow
>>> it to vary.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/24/2011 at 6:33 PM gary wrote:
>>>
>>>>It all depends where you live. I know people that get an outage a week,
>>>>so setting clocks is a way of life.
>>>>
>>>>PGE, bless their corporate hearts, is run both like a Swiss clock and
>>>>third world nation power. If you have a fair amount of industry or
>>>> malls
>>>>nearby (i.e. customers), your power is great. Live at the edge of town,
>>>>and things are not so good, even in Silicon Valley. Monte Sereno, Monta
>>>>Vista (now Cupertino), etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 6/24/2011 6:07 PM, Will Matney wrote:
>>>>> I predict, with all of my oracle abilities, snort, that the test
>>>>> won't
>>> run
>>>>> no time until there's a law suit. Almost everyone uses battery
>>>>> powered
>>>>> clocks nowdays, on the wall, and most alarms are digital with xtal
>>>>> timebases. However, there are still those old foggies who still have
>>>>> motorized clocks depending on 60Hz to do their duty. If this makes
> them
>>>>> obsolete, I wonder if the government is prepared to buy folks
>>> replacement
>>>>> clocks, like they provided the digital receivers for our TV's? Like I
>>> said,
>>>>> I can see a courtroom battle as I write this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Will
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/24/2011 at 8:50 PM paul swed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "change you can count on"
>>>>>> Thanks. All those silly alarm clocks by the bed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM, Bob Kupiec<bobkupiec at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AP: Power grid change may disrupt clocks
>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110624/ap_on_hi_te/us_sci_power_clocks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Time Error Correction Elimination
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>> http://www.nerc.com/page.php?cid=6|386
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NERC Report - June 14
>>>>>>> ---------------------
>>>>>>> http://www.nerc.com/files/NERC_TEC_Field_Trial_Webinar_061411.pdf
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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```