[time-nuts] Reversing the 3522 OT Systron-Donner Basic

EB4APL eb4apl at cembreros.jazztel.es
Mon Mar 21 15:06:21 UTC 2011


Greg,

I did some similar with my Ohio Scientific C1P some 30 years ago, 
because I needed to modify the interpreter to understand a Spanish 
translation of Basic for an educational project.  It was fun but takes a 
long time.
Now I was trying to locate somebody who used the machine on its time and 
that could remember the info.

Best regards,
Ignacio

El 21/03/2011 4:37, Greg Broburg wrote:
> Any chance you have access to the operating code?
>
> Maybe 2716s or 2732s ??
>
> Take the bare binary code and convert it to ASCII.
>
> With an ASCII text version of the code and a 6802 program
> manual all that it takes is some perseverence to successfully
> reverse engineer the little devil into some few hundreds of
> lines of code. Been there done that. Fascinating to see how
> tight those early writers could pack a working idea when 16k
> ROMs were 10 bucks a piece.
>
> I call em midnight cookies and milk projects. A few lines at
> a time will eventually turn into a flood. Breakthroughs come
> when you figure out the definitions of the RAM locations and
> the write locations for data output.
>
> Real luck would be to find a 6802 reverse compiler that
> would work. That can speed it up a bunch.
>
> Greg
>
> On 3/20/2011 7:58 PM, EB4APL wrote:
>>
>> Alan,
>>
>> This Basic has not the reserved word USING, and by the context I'm 
>> pretty sure that STYLE sets the format for subsequent PRINT's until 
>> changed.  No luck playing with commas, brackets and other punctuation 
>> so far.
>>
>> About Chuck's snippet, there is a pity that it don't make use of 
>> STYLE.  By the way, probably the controller was a previous model, the 
>> SD-3520, which has the same look but doesn't include a UV light 
>> eraser for the EPROM program cartridges.  (And yes, I had reverse 
>> engineered and built a cartridge without any sample or info on them, 
>> just deducing its existence from the presence of a Centronics like 
>> connector on the top, the UV eraser and the commands PROG ROM, READ 
>> ROM and CART INFO).
>>
>> The SD-3520 also uses a previous version of Basic with some 
>> differences, for example it seems that the BUS OUT command has been 
>> replaced by BUS PRINT.
>>
>> I have to repeat my tanks to all who had sent me on the list or 
>> directly their help.
>> And to the ones who wonder why I'm taking so much effort for 
>> resurrecting this device I can respond something that I heard some 30 
>> years ago when some Nuts began to build home computers: they are as 
>> useful as a golf clubs set, they are fun!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Ignacio EB4APL
>>
>>
>> El 21/03/2011 1:18, Chuck Harris wrote:
>>> I found a little snippet for the SD-3250 in a synthesizer manual:
>>>
>>> 1) BUS CLR Return            # Prepare controller for Bus operation
>>> 2) BUS REM Return            # Clear the bus and command 1702 to 
>>> operate
>>> 3) BUS OUT GO256540 Return        # Set frequency to 25.654 MHz.
>>> 4) BUS OUT GO256000 or C000 Return    # Change frequency to 25.6MHz, 2
>>> methods
>>> 5) BUS OUT L0555 or L3355 Return    # set level to -25.5 dBm, 2 methods
>>> 6) BUS OUT MO Return            # Select AM mode
>>> 7) BUS IN A Return Print A Return    # Check operating status
>>>
>>> Comments were added by me, and there is no indication that "#" is a 
>>> valid
>>> comment indicator.
>>>
>>> So, basically, it looks a bit cruder than even BASIC.
>>>
>>> -Chuck Harris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alan Melia wrote:
>>>> the problem is trying to guess the syntax....I was thinking of
>>>> somethings
>>>> like.....
>>>>
>>>> Set Style ##.###   // or may be just Style ##.###  try this  
>>>> "##.###" as
>>>> well.
>>>> Print using style, a,b,c
>>>>
>>>> It may be possible to define a number of styles, then it might 
>>>> be......
>>>> style 1; ##.###
>>>> style 2; #####.#
>>>> print using 1; a, b:
>>>> print using 2; c
>>>>
>>>> Once again try the ### in inverted commas.
>>>>
>>>> I seem to recollect a similar syntax somewhere but I dont recognise 
>>>> the
>>>> reserved word STYLE either  you can obviously play games with the
>>>> commas,
>>>> colons and semi-colons to see what works. the print statements you 
>>>> have
>>>> discovered will give a lead to that. Wrong synatx on an "immediate"
>>>> command
>>>> (at the prompt) should show an error straight away. If you can find 
>>>> one
>>>> manual for any programmable instrument from S-D you will probably
>>>> find an
>>>> example that will show most of the command syntax.  Think of the
>>>> parsing and
>>>> what chars are needed as delimiters to make this easy for the 
>>>> processor.
>>>>
>>>> I cant help there I have no S-D equipment. but there must be some 
>>>> around
>>>> with manuals :-))
>>>>
>>>> Alan G3NYK
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "EB4APL"<eb4apl at cembreros.jazztel.es>
>>>> To:<time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 9:13 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OT Systron-Donner Basic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan,
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't work, neither (####.#), "#####.#" and a lot of other
>>>> combinations that I already tried.
>>>> I was able to get the other commands syntax even the non "standard
>>>> basic" ones even with several parameters, but this one is very 
>>>> resilient
>>>> to all my efforts after diving in old Basic, Fortran, Algol, etc.
>>>> manuals but never found a STYLE statement.    I always get  ILLEGAL
>>>> STYLE error and no other cues.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you anyway, I appreciate all efforts.
>>>> Ignacio EB4APL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> El 20/03/2011 18:12, Alan Melia wrote:
>>>>> Hi Ignacio try the "print like" format with ######.##  to define
>>>>> decimal
>>>>> places etc
>>>>> Alan G3NYK
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "EB4APL"<eb4apl at cembreros.jazztel.es>
>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
>>>>> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:41 PM
>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] OT Systron-Donner Basic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is clearly OT, but maybe somebody in this list can give me some
>>>>> help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently I bought an old GPIB controller, a Systron-Donner Busser II
>>>>> model 3522.  As my daughter said it looks like technology coming from
>>>>> "Lost", but I want it to learn how to do some basic control of my 
>>>>> GPIB
>>>>> instruments before immersing in a more logical solution using a NI 
>>>>> card
>>>>> and a PC.
>>>>>
>>>>> For starting, I made  simple programs to record OCXO's drift and 
>>>>> aging
>>>>> against my Rb and for studying the charge and discharge of batteries.
>>>>>
>>>>> This device is a small 6802 based computer that runs a Basic dialect
>>>>> (Systron-Donner Basic v 2.a) and while the unit came without any
>>>>> documentation I was able to reverse engineer its command set and 
>>>>> other
>>>>> information.
>>>>> There is only a command that resist all my efforts so far, the 
>>>>> command
>>>>> STYLE that seems to be a kind of format facility for the PRINT 
>>>>> command.
>>>>> Anybody was exposed in the past to this technology or remember 
>>>>> anything
>>>>> about a Basic command named STYLE?
>>>>> I can´t find the right syntax for this command.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>> Ignacio, EB4APL
>>>>>
>>>>> ____
>>>>
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