[time-nuts] Neutrinos not so fast? (defectove connector)

Tom Knox actast at hotmail.com
Thu Feb 23 19:46:41 UTC 2012


It is hard to believe that they would go public with such earth shaking results based on a single GPS timebase, but I have found it is easy to focus on the test head and neglect the back end of an experiment. I must also admit it is even worse science for someone sitting in Boulder Co like myself to second guess these brilliant researchers without all the facts. In any case I am really look forward to the cause of this mystery. I hope public will judge CERN on their successes and understand that in science there is really no such thing as a mistake if we learn from it.

Thomas Knox



> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> From: gwinn at raytheon.com
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:57:11 -0500
> CC: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrinos not so fast? (defectove connector)
> 
> 
> A possible mechanism occurs to me.  High-precision GPS is very vulnerable
> to multipath errors.  A loos connector will have a significant reflection.
> The reflected energy will propagate backwards, and be reflected off the
> transmitter output discontinuity, the twice-reflected energy propagating
> back to the receiver.  The original and the triple-transit echo will add
> coherently (for the modulation, not the photons)  in the receiver.  This is
> a perfect multipath scenario.  How long must the cable be?  Depends on the
> relative strength of main signal and triple-transit echo.
> 
> Joe Gwinn
> 
> 
> time-nuts-bounces at febo.com wrote on 02/22/2012 06:31:54 PM:
> 
> > From: Jim Palfreyman <jim77742 at gmail.com>
> > To: richard at karlquist.com, Discussion of precise time and
> > frequency measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
> > Date: 02/22/2012 06:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Neutrinos not so fast? (defectove connector)
> > Sent by: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com
> >
> > Maybe the loose connector meant the clock at one end *never* synced with
> > the GPS and just happened to be 60ns fast. Tighten the connecter, clock
> > resyncs, problem solved.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > On 23 February 2012 09:57, Rick Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe they checked the connector by replacing the whole
> > > fiber optic cable with a new one, and while doing that
> > > had the "oh sh.." moment of realizing the length of the
> > > old one was 20 meters different than it was supposed to be.
> > > I think this sort of thing has happened to all of us
> > > with significant experience.  Or maybe the cable was marked
> > > with an incorrect length (not due to error by the experimenters)
> > > and they forgot "trust but verify".  We've probably all
> > > gotten bit by that one as well.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > > Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> > > > In message
> > <9A458DBA-3875-43B2-8383-5CA2F86BE8E2 at leapsecond.com>, "Tom
> > > Van
> > > > Baak
> > > >  (lab)" writes:
> > > >
> > > >>Could be on the electrical side of the adapter, not the optical
> > > >>side. It's not impossible to get 60 ns of phase or trigger error
> > > >>with RF connectors.
> > > >
> > > > I don't buy that explanation.
> > > >
> > > > It's very hard to get 60 ns *consistent* phase or trigger error,
> > > > with any kind of connector, almost no matter how you go about it.
> > > >
> > > > 20m of extra fiber sounds *much* more plausible.
> > > >
> > > > Inventing an excuse about a loose connector to cover up the mistake
> > > > sounds even more plausible.
> > > >
> > > > You really don't want to defend your phd dissertation, being known
> > > > as the idiot who made a fool of both CERN and SanGrasso in one go.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> > > > phk at FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> > > > FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> > > > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
> > > > incompetence.
> > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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