[time-nuts] Nifty "MINI TIC" for DMTD work detail Info please read

EWKehren at aol.com EWKehren at aol.com
Tue Nov 20 12:20:48 UTC 2012


Dave
Thank you for your offer. I think I have the documentation solved. Brian,  
who helped in the past has offered to help and has some of the previous work 
to  build on.
As to PIC programming I will ask Juerg to get with you off list.
Bert
 
 
In a message dated 11/19/2012 8:47:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
mcquate at sonic.net writes:

Hi  Bert,

What kind or sort of documentation is  needed?

schematics?
PC layout?
software / firmware  documentation?

I've been programming PICs intermittently for 10+ years.  Some of my 
projects use 2 or 4 line LCD displays. I have given other  
microcontrollers a short test spin.

I've also done some Verilog  with the Altera DE0 nano board (Cyclone IV 
EP4CE22F17), a period counter  that used an internal PLL to boost the 
hardware 50 MHz to 300 MHz for  better resolution. Also FPGA for software 
defined radio signal processing  (Cyclone III).


Dave  McQuate
WA8YWQ
mcquate at sonic.net


On 11/19/2012 2:28 PM,  EWKehren at aol.com wrote:
>
> Allow me to put all this in   perspective. Three years ago having just
> joined time-nuts I started to  be  interested in Dual Mixers. Having CS 
and Rb my
> main interest  was and still is  low noise signal generators and I have 
all
> the  HP equipment for those  measurements. Did my first Shera Rb about  
2000
> and a few more since. Time was  not and still is not much of  an interest 
my
> best time instrument is a modified  PICTIC  II.
> Starting with the original NBS paper  I came to the  conclusion that the
> major cost would be the counter, something I   would have very little use 
for,
> for other projects since I am well  equipped up  to 40 GHz. That is when I
> came up with the idea of  what I call a ping pong  counter a counter that 
counts
> every  period, sort of pseudo time stamping. Back  of an envelop  
calculation
> and I went on the list stating that I think a $   200  D/M system not
> counting OCXO’s  was doable. What was  needed was help with the PIC 
codes. First
> response was  “that is  why we call our self Time-nuts”. However Richard 
Mc
> Cokle did offer  his  help and he has been key to the success. The goal 
of $
> 200  for all material for  a 4 channel counter and D/M is attainable if  
10
> boards are ordered.
> The first set of boards where  done  in about 5 month. Several people 
tested
> the D/M but kept on  using their counter  and my thanks go out to Corby 
who
> tested the  very first  D/M.
> I was left testing the counter and  logic  is my strong suit as Juerg will
> attest my weakness is software even  though  at one time I set up and was 
in
> charge of a software  group. Had problems with  the counter PC interface. 
Now
> thanks to  Corby I now know that the problem was  the 56K RS 232 versus 
9.6
>  K. Tells you how brilliant I am on that subject. Till  recently I 
thought  RS
> 232 is RS232.
> I did reach out to the list and   connected with Fred Tijddingen who 
offered
> to help. I send him a  counter and he  asked me to get him some parts that
> where not  time related after he agreed to  pay for them. After I shipped
>  them, never heard from him again. Be careful, I do  not know if any one  
else had
> that experience. Many of you know I used to ship  and  only asked to be 
paid
> after you got the parts. Well now I am a lot  more  selective.
> A year ago I connected with list  member  Juerg Koegel. We share the same
> priorities and complement each other  with  our skill sets. On top of that
> Juerg has the equipment that  I lack and the know  how to make it talk to 
PC’s.
> On top  of  that Juerg had used a MAX 3000 G/A for a PICTIC counter. 
Perfect
>  match. Juerg  can also write PIC code, not like Richard but what we   
need.
> First out the 2 channel and 4  channel counters now with  G/A’s and 
Richards
> PIC;s. The two channel measures  phase and  period in the ping pong mode
> allowing you to do the basics of a  single  D/M. The 4 channel was 
intended for
> two D/M’s or with an  additional 2 channel  for three corner hat. Can 
also be
> used for  cross correlation.
> How ever the 4 channel in  combination with  one D/M allows also very high
> resolution frequency comparison   only limited by the noise floor of the 
D/M.
> Since the A/V measurements  are most  likely not a daily activity using 
this
> instrument for  frequency measurements or  aging tests over long term 
makes
> it a  very useful tool. Juerg does not want me  to talk to much about it, 
 but
> he is right now busy writing PIC code for a 4 line  LCD  display that also
> includes a Vinculum VDRIVE2 that allows recording  data on  a USB flash 
drive,
> interfaces with a PC using RS 232,  USB and Bluetooth. I call  it the 
Swiss
> Army Knife, because of  all the things the combination D/M, Counter  and 
Juerg
> LCD can  do.
> The D/M is being revisited because  of the counter  performance. 1 E-13 is
> easily attainable but the Czech IREE   published a paper and claim 2 E-15.
> Would be nice to get 1 E-14. Tried  to get  detailed information, no 
luck, but
> maybe some list member  will be able to. It  was EU funded.
> Working with Juerg has been  very  productive
> 2 channel counter    done
> 4  channel counter    done
> Partridge and TADD-2 Mini like 1  pps  generator using G/A done
> Tbolt  Bluetooth  interface  done
> G/A version of Shera using 100 or  200 MHz  in testing
> D/M LCD PCB done, in code writing  phase
>  Austron circuit using G/A in  testing
> PICTIC II using G/A in  board  layout  G/A  done
> At this point I like to make a  plug  for the Altera MAX 3000 GA. Easy to
> program (I can do it)  low cost and makes all  TTL and HC logic available 
but
> the best  part if something does not work you do  not have to do a new  
board,
> just reprogram. Using a $ 0.60 socket makes it very   solderable. Made a
> prototype board and I think it is fair to say that  our  productivity has 
gone up
> 10 fold. Some one mentioned G/A  jitter a day later we  had a test setup
> comparing a Partrige  board with our circuit and found out  thanks to Jueg
’s
> equipment  G/A was as good maybe slightly better.  Software is free and 
the  prog
> rammer is $  10.
> What happens next depends on   interest by the list. Juerg and I will not
> get in to the kit business  but if  larger interest is there I will find 
a way
> to  accommodate.
> Let  me make it clear, the counter by it self   has only limited 
usability,
> you also have to have or build a D/M. But  the  combination with a PC or
> Display will make it a very useful,  flexible,  affordable tool.
> My back of the envelope  calculation  still shows $ 200 for the Mixer und
> counter and  somewhere between $ 350 and 400  for a full up system using  
Morion
> MV 89 OCXO for offset, LCD Display with  VDRIVE2, power  supplies and
> enclosure.
> I am looking for a volotier to  work  with me on the documentation, my
> drafting skills are mnimal  and I want Juerg to  focus on display code. 
Would be a
>  distraction.
> Will send a picture of the 2 channel  but have to  compress to make it
> through the system.
> Bert  Kehren   Miami
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-- 
Clear Stream  Technologies


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