[time-nuts] HP Z3805A com port and monitoring questions
Edgardo Molina
xe1xus at amsat.org
Sun Oct 14 16:42:34 UTC 2012
Dear Chuck,
Now it has been nice to put a face to a name (at least electronically). I completed the installation of your software and as soon as I determine the class of communication port my GPSDOs have, I will comment back to you my experiences with your monitor. Installation was a breeze. I like the idea of running several instances of it for different boxes.
It is interesting that most of the replies now regarding the Z3805A are referred to the Samsung model bearing two communication ports. Now I am not sure if my units purchase was the best decision at that time. I will wait on comments regarding the differences in design and performance for the variants related to the Z3805A model.
Just to follow up a little bit on my previous posting. I used individual Symmetricom antennas and transmission lines for this HP Z3805 setup. Still using the HP 2 to 1 GPS splitter to feed my pair of Truetime GPS time and frequency receivers. Will have to conduct tests and measurements according to all the interesting feedback I got during the last days. I lack a good variety of instruments. I will try to do my best with the ones I have in hand. A Proligix GPIB interfase is on its way to me.
Thank you.
Regards,
Edgardo Molina
Dirección IPTEL
www.iptel.net.mx
T : 55 55 55202444
M : 04455 20501854
Piensa en Bits SA de CV
Información anexa:
CONFIDENCIALIDAD DE INFORMACION
Este mensaje tiene carácter confidencial. Si usted no es el destinarario de este mensaje, le suplicamos se lo notifique al remitente mediante un correo electrónico y que borre el presente mensaje y sus anexos de su computadora sin retener una copia de los mismos. Queda estrictamente prohibido copiar este mensaje o hacer usode el para cualquier propósito o divulgar su en forma parcial o total su contenido. Gracias.
NON-DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION
This email is strictly confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please immediately advise the sender by replying to this e-mail and then deleting the message and its attachments from your computer without keeping a copy. It is strictly forbidden to copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any third party. Thank you.
On Oct 14, 2012, at 10:05 AM, BD Systems Inc. <bdsysco at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Z3805A has two serial ports, both of which are RS-232. Serial Port 2 broadcasts time of day only and will not accept scpi commands. Serial Port 1 shoudl be used for scpi control.
>
> Chuck Zabilski
> BD Systems, Inc.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "time-nuts-request at febo.com" <time-nuts-request at febo.com>
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 11:31 PM
> Subject: time-nuts Digest, Vol 99, Issue 62
>
> Send time-nuts mailing list submissions to
> time-nuts at febo.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> time-nuts-request at febo.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> time-nuts-owner at febo.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of time-nuts digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: HP 10811A failure (GandalfG8 at aol.com)
> 2. Re: PRS10 dying from old age... (paul swed)
> 3. Re: HP 10811A failure (Adrian)
> 4. Re: HP 10811A failure (GandalfG8 at aol.com)
> 5. HP Z3805A com port and monitoring questions (Edgardo Molina)
> 6. Re: PRS10 dying from old age... (Magnus Danielson)
> 7. Seistek pn3048 (David Hooke)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 16:31:24 -0400 (EDT)
> From: GandalfG8 at aol.com
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811A failure
> Message-ID: <e24c.65d0a055.3dab299c at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Perhaps a silly question, but as I get the impression that both seem to
> have failed simultaneously with the same fault I'm just wondering if you're
> sure it isn't what you're checking them with that's developed a problem?
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
>
>
> In a message dated 13/10/2012 13:52:46 GMT Daylight Time, rfnuts at arcor.de
> writes:
>
> Hi All,
>
> both of my double oven 10811A's have been running flawlessly until now
> when I noticed that the output power has dropped by about 3 dB (measures
> only 4...4.5 dBm at 50 Ohm load), and the noise floor has gone up by
> about 20 dB, while the frequency is still spot on.
>
> I used them for various mesurements, so I can unfortunately not remember
> what might have caused the failure. Only the 12V linear lab power supply
> that fed the heaters had developed a completely dead filter cap, so the
> feeding voltage was a 100 Hz sawtooth rather than DC. The heaters appear
> to be still working though. I'm only using the internal heater. They
> draw some 700 mA at power up and drop to around 150 mA each when warm.
> So the oscillators are unlikely to be cooked inside. Something must have
> happened to the 10 MHz output, possibly an ESD issue?
>
> Before I start taking them apart, can anyone tell what has happened or
> what to look for first?
>
> Regards,
> Adrian
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 17:19:09 -0400
> From: paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 dying from old age...
> Message-ID:
> <CAD2JfAhnLv1q4=OTfMMbAiwnEG84nRBvejDZiHfhVX_V7-138g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Poul
> If it is dying there should maybe be a lamp voltage you can check and see
> what it indicates. If you consider it dead then you can always checK to see
> is it something going on like low RF or maybe the RB truly is an issue. I
> have recovered some olf FRS by reheating the rb bulb and essentially
> getting the RB that collects on the bulb back into circulation. Heck once
> its dead you can have real fun.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 4:48 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk at phk.freebsd.dk>wrote:
>
>>
>> One of my PRS10s is dying from old age by the looks of it, here is some
>> data I have
>> collected from it over the last 800 days:
>>
>> http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/prs10_death/index.html
>>
>> --
>> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
>> phk at FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
>> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
>> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:26:35 +0200
> From: Adrian <rfnuts at arcor.de>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811A failure
> Message-ID: <5079F8AB.8020208 at arcor.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> A very good point!
>
> I checked the output amplitude with a spectrum analyzer, a power meter
> and a scope, the latter with a 50 ohm load to the input.
> I re-checked the power supply connections and can confirm they are the
> same as before.
> I used three different power supplies for the oscillators and two for
> the heaters, still no difference.
> But...
>
> To make it short, your comments helped to get me back on track. Both
> beauties escaped unnecessary dismantling and are now working as they should.
>
> Actually, the problem was caused by a long-term misunderstanding. I was
> always wondering why 'HP used simple stranded wire' and not coaxial
> cable on the 10 MHz output and EFC.
> As long as I connected them on the bench, I replaced the 'missing'
> ground connection with a short wired croc clamp between coax and ground.
> Today I realized that the thin blue wire IS actually coax cable, so I
> should have connected the coax shield to the BNC ground on my newly
> built 2x 10811 enclosure. With the new wiring, the output ground had
> just become much more inductive, up to a point where the nominal source
> impedance of 50 ohms had increased to over 120 ohms, causing the
> amplitude loss of some 3 dB and capturing noise.
>
> Btw. the Sprague 6800 uF / 40 V from my R&S NGA power supply has indeed
> died, but independently of the osc. problem.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> GandalfG8 at aol.com schrieb:
>> Perhaps a silly question, but as I get the impression that both seem to
>> have failed simultaneously with the same fault I'm just wondering if you're
>> sure it isn't what you're checking them with that's developed a problem?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Nigel
>> GM8PZR
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 13/10/2012 13:52:46 GMT Daylight Time, rfnuts at arcor.de
>> writes:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> both of my double oven 10811A's have been running flawlessly until now
>> when I noticed that the output power has dropped by about 3 dB (measures
>> only 4...4.5 dBm at 50 Ohm load), and the noise floor has gone up by
>> about 20 dB, while the frequency is still spot on.
>>
>> I used them for various mesurements, so I can unfortunately not remember
>> what might have caused the failure. Only the 12V linear lab power supply
>> that fed the heaters had developed a completely dead filter cap, so the
>> feeding voltage was a 100 Hz sawtooth rather than DC. The heaters appear
>> to be still working though. I'm only using the internal heater. They
>> draw some 700 mA at power up and drop to around 150 mA each when warm.
>> So the oscillators are unlikely to be cooked inside. Something must have
>> happened to the 10 MHz output, possibly an ESD issue?
>>
>> Before I start taking them apart, can anyone tell what has happened or
>> what to look for first?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrian
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 20:58:17 -0400 (EDT)
> From: GandalfG8 at aol.com
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] HP 10811A failure
> Message-ID: <791a.5cca4a31.3dab6829 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi Adrian
>
> Glad to hear you're back on track and that all is now well
>
> I can understand that very thin coax being quite deceptive, it's certainly
> amongst the thinnest I've ever come across.
>
> I've got a couple of double oven10811s bought from one of the usual Chinese
> Ebay sellers a few years ago as potential spares for my Z3801As and both
> have one of the coax connectors chopped off, can't remember now whether it's
> the 10MHz output or the EFC input.
> Either way, should they ever be needed in anger I'm keeping my fingers
> crossed that the leads can be swapped over, cos fitting another connector sure
> don't look to be a very user friendly option:-)
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
>
>
> In a message dated 14/10/2012 00:27:23 GMT Daylight Time, rfnuts at arcor.de
> writes:
>
> A very good point!
>
> I checked the output amplitude with a spectrum analyzer, a power meter
> and a scope, the latter with a 50 ohm load to the input.
> I re-checked the power supply connections and can confirm they are the
> same as before.
> I used three different power supplies for the oscillators and two for
> the heaters, still no difference.
> But...
>
> To make it short, your comments helped to get me back on track. Both
> beauties escaped unnecessary dismantling and are now working as they
> should.
>
> Actually, the problem was caused by a long-term misunderstanding. I was
> always wondering why 'HP used simple stranded wire' and not coaxial
> cable on the 10 MHz output and EFC.
> As long as I connected them on the bench, I replaced the 'missing'
> ground connection with a short wired croc clamp between coax and ground.
> Today I realized that the thin blue wire IS actually coax cable, so I
> should have connected the coax shield to the BNC ground on my newly
> built 2x 10811 enclosure. With the new wiring, the output ground had
> just become much more inductive, up to a point where the nominal source
> impedance of 50 ohms had increased to over 120 ohms, causing the
> amplitude loss of some 3 dB and capturing noise.
>
> Btw. the Sprague 6800 uF / 40 V from my R&S NGA power supply has indeed
> died, but independently of the osc. problem.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> GandalfG8 at aol.com schrieb:
>> Perhaps a silly question, but as I get the impression that both seem to
>> have failed simultaneously with the same fault I'm just wondering if
> you're
>> sure it isn't what you're checking them with that's developed a problem?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Nigel
>> GM8PZR
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 13/10/2012 13:52:46 GMT Daylight Time, rfnuts at arcor.de
>> writes:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> both of my double oven 10811A's have been running flawlessly until now
>> when I noticed that the output power has dropped by about 3 dB (measures
>> only 4...4.5 dBm at 50 Ohm load), and the noise floor has gone up by
>> about 20 dB, while the frequency is still spot on.
>>
>> I used them for various mesurements, so I can unfortunately not remember
>> what might have caused the failure. Only the 12V linear lab power supply
>> that fed the heaters had developed a completely dead filter cap, so the
>> feeding voltage was a 100 Hz sawtooth rather than DC. The heaters
> appear
>> to be still working though. I'm only using the internal heater. They
>> draw some 700 mA at power up and drop to around 150 mA each when warm.
>> So the oscillators are unlikely to be cooked inside. Something must have
>> happened to the 10 MHz output, possibly an ESD issue?
>>
>> Before I start taking them apart, can anyone tell what has happened or
>> what to look for first?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrian
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2012 21:18:17 -0500
> From: Edgardo Molina <xe1xus at amsat.org>
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> Subject: [time-nuts] HP Z3805A com port and monitoring questions
> Message-ID: <AE884C82-E444-452A-8589-C2ACFB0C80EA at amsat.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Dear Group,
>
> Good evening. I bought two HP Z3805A units a few weeks ago. They were bare units without antenna or power supply. After struggling to find a suitable 24V 3A noise free power supply for each of them, I mounted a couple of Symmetricom antennas and just fired them up.
>
> After around 25 minutes, the GPS Lock light lighted up. As the manual for this particular model is unobtainable in several searches through the Internet, I found that the readily available manual for the Z3801A would cover much of the Z3905A operation. I also got a software for monitoring the operation from BD Systems Inc. In Colorado. Now that I am sure both are operating and locked only by looking at the front panel lights, I would like to ask a couple of questions regarding their communication to the PC.
>
> 1. Is the DB-25 serial port carrying RS-232 signals? I see the port of the Z380A1 is different: RS-422.
> 2. If the port is plain RS-232 is it possible to use a Serial to USB adapter? I have heard about the inconsistencies that such an adapter could cause when used with a TBolt. Should I assume this is the same case with the Z3805A?
> 3. There was once a project for building a TBolt state monitor on a 2 line LCD screen. I own three of those monitors and they are just great. Is there an equivalent for these HP GPS units?
>
> Any suggestions for the operation of these units and your ever expert and kind advise is always welcome. You all have a nice weekend!
>
> Kindest regards,
>
>
>
> Edgardo Molina
> Direcci?n IPTEL
>
> www.iptel.net.mx
>
> T : 55 55 55202444
> M : 04455 20501854
>
> Piensa en Bits SA de CV
>
>
>
> Informaci?n anexa:
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENCIALIDAD DE INFORMACION
>
> Este mensaje tiene car?cter confidencial. Si usted no es el destinarario de este mensaje, le suplicamos se lo notifique al remitente mediante un correo electr?nico y que borre el presente mensaje y sus anexos de su computadora sin retener una copia de los mismos. Queda estrictamente prohibido copiar este mensaje o hacer usode el para cualquier prop?sito o divulgar su en forma parcial o total su contenido. Gracias.
>
>
> NON-DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION
>
> This email is strictly confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please immediately advise the sender by replying to this e-mail and then deleting the message and its attachments from your computer without keeping a copy. It is strictly forbidden to copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its contents to any third party. Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:26:02 +0200
> From: Magnus Danielson <magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org>
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 dying from old age...
> Message-ID: <507A22BA.2000306 at rubidium.dyndns.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 10/13/2012 11:19 PM, paul swed wrote:
>> Poul
>> If it is dying there should maybe be a lamp voltage you can check and see
>> what it indicates. If you consider it dead then you can always checK to see
>> is it something going on like low RF or maybe the RB truly is an issue. I
>> have recovered some olf FRS by reheating the rb bulb and essentially
>> getting the RB that collects on the bulb back into circulation.
>
> What I did was that I heated it up with an air gun. First try, it
> depleted onto the glass, but then I realized that I had left the
> collection dot to the side, so it had to deplete on the colder glass,
> but when I turned the collection dot to the top of the lamp and then
> heated, as the hot atom raised to the top, they would deplete into the
> rubidium dot and the glass surface would be free of them. The later is
> important, because if they deplete on the glass, then they will absorb
> the wavelengths of rubidium and this is the energy you want to get out
> of the lamp.
>
> I was fortunate as the R&S rubidium is built such that you can get the
> rubidium lamp out of the clock without even turning it off. The special
> tool you need is part of the assembly.
>
> Looking at the graphs, you have had some intermittent operations with
> glimpses of operation. I wonder if this is the lamp. You can open it up
> and check the lamp, it may be part of your problem. I would look for
> contact problems, like bad solder joint or something.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:30:42 +1000
> From: David Hooke <dhooke at gmail.com>
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Seistek pn3048
> Message-ID: <507A4E02.8050108 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone have a download link for the Seistek PN3048 phase noise
> software, or details about contacting the author?
>
> I'd like to use it to configure my 11848A, although I don't know how far
> I'll get without having a 3561A (just an 8568B).
>
> Cheers,
>
> davidh
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list
> time-nuts at febo.com
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
> End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 99, Issue 62
> *****************************************
> _______________________________________________
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
More information about the time-nuts
mailing list