[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812

Tom Miller tmiller11147 at verizon.net
Tue Nov 18 13:04:33 EST 2014 

Yes, and the antenna voltage is 5 volts. So be sure to use a 5 volt antenna.

Tom


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anthony Roby" <aroby at antamy.com>
To: <W4wj at aol.com>; "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
<time-nuts at febo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom 
Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812


> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of 
> photos I posted.  This one 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the 
> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>
> Anthony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don 
> Murray via time-nuts
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
> To: time-nuts at febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom 
> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>
> Hello all...
>
> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>
> My stupid question (s)...
>
> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>
> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>
> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A...   ;-(
>
> TIA...
>
>
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time, 
> mark at alignedsolutions.com writes:
>
> One of  my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
> similarly at  times to the 58503A mentioned by Said.   From an adev 
> perspective
> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so  iirc.)
> At times though the output seems to "jump" in  frequency.   My other Z3805
> from the same source doesn't work as  well.
>
> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of  which I 
> basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an  Adev 
> perspective.  I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction  site 
> with
> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices.     At least I 
> still have
> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>
>
> Sent  from my iPad
>
> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts 
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Correct on all counts  Bob.
>>
>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV  and PN
> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have  Wenzel 
> ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable  ADEV).  I 
> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP  unit.
>>
>> Those 10811s just rule.
>>
>> In fact my  only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
> spurs you can see  in the plots...
>>
>> Bye,
>> Said
>>
>> Sent From  iPhone
>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp  <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
>>> around
> it - right?
>>>
>>> If so, it might / should   have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at  100 Hz. That is much better than the 
> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to  produce at 100 Hz. About the only 
> other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is  the one in the original 
> TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs.  That make the noise 
> floor of limited use in a practical system.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM,  SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi  Bob,
>>>>
>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt.  The 15MHz plot is quite
>>>> good
> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty  rotten too.
>>>>
>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units  (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this  plot was actually done 
> to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually  has less noise and 
> spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference  for this 
> purpose).
>>>>
>>>> The good news is that  getting the close-in phase noise to be good
>>>> is
> very hard to do and the unit  delivers that out-of-the box already. 
> Filtering out the noise and spurs above  40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. 
> It should be fairly straight forward to  cobble up a small PN filter for 
> those units to get rid of the noise and spurs  above 40Hz offset.
>>>>
>>>> bye,
>>>>  Said
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46  Pacific Standard Time,
> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
>>>>  Hi
>>>>
>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz.  There are a few spurs, and
>>>> an
> very real hump out at the likely frequency of  the Lucent switcher.  The 
> 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of  the other units I ??ve 
> seen on the surplus market.
>>>>
>>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband  multiplier.
>>>> I
> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational  bandwidth. You 
> will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO  past 100 
> Hz.
> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>
>>>> Math:
>>>>
>>>> 15  MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>
>>>>  -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>>
>>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset  out of
>>>> a
> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to 
> work fine for him.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>
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