[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...

Tue Nov 18 15:25:24 EST 2014

The item is (back) on ebay which has pretty good pictures

321560316836

-pete

On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Don Murray via time-nuts
<time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
> TNX Peter!!
>
> I had only seen a picture of REF1, with no GPS  connector!!
>
> 73
> Don
> W4WJ
>
>
> In a message dated 11/18/2014 1:07:07 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> pch.tns at gmail.com writes:
>
> Hi  Don,
>
> J7, marked GPS antenna is a good start. This connector also powers  your
> GPS Antenna.
>
> Take care
>
> Peter
> HB9DQY
>
>
>> On  18 Nov 2014, at 11:49, Anthony Roby <aroby at antamy.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set  of
> photos I posted.  This one
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the front  of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: time-nuts  [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
> Murray via  time-nuts
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
>> To:  time-nuts at febo.com
>> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent  KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>>
>> Hello  all...
>>
>> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>>
>> My stupid question (s)...
>>
>> Where does the GPS antenna  connect??
>>
>> Does the GPS antenna port power the  antenna?
>>
>> Need a replacement for my dead HP  Z3816A...   ;-(
>>
>> TIA...
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Don
>> W4WJ
>>
>>
>>
>> In a  message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> mark at alignedsolutions.com writes:
>>
>> One of  my Z3805's  (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
>> similarly  at  times to the 58503A mentioned by Said.   From an adev
> perspective
>> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred  seconds or so
> iirc.)
>> At times though the output seems to "jump"  in  frequency.   My other
> Z3805
>> from the same source  doesn't work as  well.
>>
>> None of the 10811's in my various  pieces of test gear (some of  which I
> basically purchased to get the  10811's) worked all that well from an  Adev
> perspective.  I used to  buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction  site with
>> 10811's and  the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices.     At least I
> still  have
>> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>>
>>
>> Sent  from my iPad
>>
>> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM,  Said Jackson via time-nuts
> <time-nuts at febo.com>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Correct on all counts  Bob.
>>>
>>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV  and  PN
>> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I  have
> Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any  usable  ADEV).  I
> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete  against the HP  unit.
>>>
>>> Those 10811s just  rule.
>>>
>>> In fact my  only complaint about the  58503A are the 60Hz related small
>> spurs you can see  in the  plots...
>>>
>>> Bye,
>>> Said
>>>
>>> Sent From  iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Nov 17,  2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp  <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with  a pretty instrument style package put
>>>> around
>> it  - right?
>>>>
>>>> If so, it might / should    have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
>> The 10811 is rated for  -155 dbc at  100 Hz. That is much better than the
> noise floor that the  MTI ??s seem to  produce at 100 Hz. About the only
> other GPSDO OCXO that  gets to that level is  the one in the original TBolts .
> There you very  much have to deal with spurs.  That make the noise floor of
> limited use  in a practical system.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM,  SAIDJACK at aol.com  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi   Bob,
>>>>>
>>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten,  no doubt.  The 15MHz plot is quite
>>>>> good
>> till  about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty  rotten  too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is one of my 58503A  units  (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
>> comparison.. measured against  our DROR-IIA (this  plot was actually done
> to show the DROR-IIA PN, but  since that unit actually  has less noise and
> spurs than the 58503A we can  simply use it as the reference  for this
> purpose).
>>>>>
>>>>> The good news is that  getting the close-in phase  noise to be good
>>>>> is
>> very hard to do and the  unit  delivers that out-of-the box already.
> Filtering out the noise and  spurs above  40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It
> should be fairly  straight forward to  cobble up a small PN filter for those
> units to get  rid of the noise and spurs  above 40Hz offset.
>>>>>
>>>>> bye,
>>>>> Said
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46  Pacific  Standard Time,
>> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
>>>>>  Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15  MHz.  There are a few spurs, and
>>>>> an
>> very  real hump out at the likely frequency of  the Lucent switcher.  The
>  15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of  the other units I ??ve
> seen on the surplus market.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would  not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband  multiplier.
>>>>> I
>> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with  a rational  bandwidth.
> You will beat the noise on the output with a  fairly simple VHF VCXO  past 100
> Hz.
>> No reason to have a  bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>>
>>>>> Math:
>>>>>
>>>>> 15   MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>>
>>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120  dbc/Hz
>>>>>
>>>>> You can get numbers better  than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset  out of
>>>>> a
>>  number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
> work fine for him.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>  <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>>
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