[time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z381...
Bob Camp
kb8tq at n1k.org
Tue Nov 18 18:02:34 EST 2014
Hi
Any data on the measured phase noise performance at 10 MHz?
Bob
> On Nov 18, 2014, at 3:20 PM, pch.tns <pch.tns at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> The easiest setup to get 10MHz out of the15MHz is using a SiLabs5351C and program it 15MHz in and 10MHz out. You have 8 outputs you can define.
> Pics of my setup here <https://www.dropbox.com/s/h5qrxwfb3fkshen/IMG_1465.JPG?dl=0>and here <https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvg6vebxih8ih2s/IMG_1466.jpg?dl=0>. I am using this for all my SDR’s and conventional Rx/Tx with 10 MHz ref inputs. Works great.
>
> Rgds
>
> Peter, HB9DQY
>
>
>
>> On 18 Nov 2014, at 15:09, Don Murray via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
>>
>> TNX Paul and Anthony...
>>
>> More questions... ;-)
>>
>> I see that the REF1 type unit outputs 15MHz...
>>
>> The REF0 unit has both 15MHz and 10MHz...
>>
>> So, if I am going to use GPS, I need REF1, but it only does 15MHz out,
>> and I need 10MHz for my stuff... so how do REF1 and REF0 interface??
>> Or does it work that way??
>>
>> TNX guys!!
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Don
>> W4WJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/18/2014 12:28:06 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>> paulswedb at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> In the picture its the top unit ref1 and its the left hand TNC and it does
>> power the antenna.
>> If no antenna you need to tie a resistor to ground on the tnc to fake it
>> out.
>> Regards
>> Paul
>> WB8TSL
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Anthony Roby <aroby at antamy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you search through the recent messages, you'll see a link to a set of
>>> photos I posted. This one
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5tlecUITRBLc3JyMElTdUwzMHM shows the
>>> front of the units. J7 provides the GPS power.
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Don
>>> Murray via time-nuts
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:30 AM
>>> To: time-nuts at febo.com
>>> Subject: [time-nuts] STUPID QUESTION: Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom
>>> Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812
>>>
>>> Hello all...
>>>
>>> Just getting up to speed on the KS-24361...
>>>
>>> My stupid question (s)...
>>>
>>> Where does the GPS antenna connect??
>>>
>>> Does the GPS antenna port power the antenna?
>>>
>>> Need a replacement for my dead HP Z3816A... ;-(
>>>
>>> TIA...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Don
>>> W4WJ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 11/18/2014 3:26:52 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>>> mark at alignedsolutions.com writes:
>>>
>>> One of my Z3805's (with the double oven 10811 ocxo iirc) also performs
>>> similarly at times to the 58503A mentioned by Said. From an adev
>>> perspective
>>> it's close to my BVA at some tau's (around a hundred seconds or so
>> iirc.)
>>> At times though the output seems to "jump" in frequency. My other
>> Z3805
>>> from the same source doesn't work as well.
>>>
>>> None of the 10811's in my various pieces of test gear (some of which I
>>> basically purchased to get the 10811's) worked all that well from an
>> Adev
>>> perspective. I used to buy HP5328 counters on the usual auction site
>> with
>>> 10811's and the 500MHz C channel for quite low prices. At least I
>>> still have
>>> a nice collection of frequency counters.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 2014-11-17, at 1:23 PM, Said Jackson via time-nuts
>> <time-nuts at febo.com
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Correct on all counts Bob.
>>>>
>>>> My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN
>>> measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel
>>> ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I
>>> also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit.
>>>>
>>>> Those 10811s just rule.
>>>>
>>>> In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small
>>> spurs you can see in the plots...
>>>>
>>>> Bye,
>>>> Said
>>>>
>>>> Sent From iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put
>>>>> around
>>> it - right?
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO.
>>> The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the
>>> noise floor that the MTI ??s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only
>>> other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original
>> TBolts
>>> . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor
>>> of limited use in a practical system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, SAIDJACK at aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bob,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite
>>>>>> good
>>> till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a
>>> comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done
>>> to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and
>>> spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this
>>> purpose).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good
>>>>>> is
>>> very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already.
>>> Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to
>> do.
>>> It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for
>>> those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bye,
>>>>>> Said
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time,
>>> kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here ??s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and
>>>>>> an
>>> very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The
>>> 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I ??ve
>>> seen on the surplus market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier.
>>>>>> I
>>> would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You
>>> will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100
>>> Hz.
>>> No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Math:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 15 MHz to 150 MHz -> 20 log (N) -> 20 db.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset -> -120 dbc/Hz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of
>>>>>> a
>>> number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to
>>> work fine for him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png>
>>>>>
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