[time-nuts] HP10811 vs 00105 OCXO
KA2WEU at aol.com
KA2WEU at aol.com
Sat Aug 8 19:21:13 EDT 2015
How good or bad is the 10811 and which one on ebay is a better choice ?
I am looking for a very goo 5 MHz crystal oscillator with documentation .
Thanks, Ulrich N1UL
In a message dated 8/8/2015 7:16:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
kb8tq at n1k.org writes:
Hi
Ok, so John’s observation was the correct one. The data we are looking at
is *not* the
performance of the OCXO’s but the strange behavior of the counter at short
ADEV Tau’s.
Sorry for my bashing your poor 10811.
Bob
> On Aug 8, 2015, at 12:25 PM, timeok at timeok.it wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I try to ansver to all you:
>
> Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project?
If so, it's looking promising.
> The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for
measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta trace is
optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly like
I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed noise is
due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of the
10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or ADEV
uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be needed to
distinguish between these two situations.
>
> -- john, KE5FX
> Miles Design LLC
>
> r: no, all the measurements are taken using an HP53132A in frequency
mode. The difference can be the gate time. Using 1 second the resolution is
lower than using 2 Second that permit the max counter resolution.
>
> Hi
>
> Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the
same measurement system and that it
> had the same floor under all circumstances….
>
> Bob
>
> r: all the measurements are under the same conditions except for the
gate time of the counter.
>
> Hi Luciano,
>
> Can you give me the link to your ADEV posting image about 10811 vs 105
oscillators? I had it and now can't seem to find it. I wanted to look at
your plots as I read John Miles' comments. Many thanks.
>
> I have two very high performing HP10811-60109 OCXO units which I got
from Corby.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Jim Robbins
> N1JR
>
> r: Jim, I will load soon some files on my site. The 105B I have is a
fantastic exception, unfortunately it have a defect, may be a bad solder
inside cause randomly a phase jump and return to the original phase trend, so
all The long term ADEV are distorted by this problem I have to fix.
>
> Tom VB, i will do all the cross measurements on 10811, 00105 and
rubidium I have and i will upload they but I need time to do this.
> Unfortunately I have only the HP53132A as TIC and my best reference are
four HP5065A. I normally use the counter function because the TI function
on 1 PPS have 100 time less resolution.
> Will be interesting doing also the Phase noise tests. I will do it.
> please see:
http://www.timeok.it/files/time_and_frequency_house_standard_201r.pdf
>
> Luciano
> www.timeok.it
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat 08/08/15 02:23 , Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Well an un-stated assumption of mine was that they all came from the
same
>> measurement system and that it
>> had the same floor under all circumstances….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:21 PM, John Miles wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> If that data is correct, then the 10811 you have is defective.
>>>> Bob
>>>
>>> Well... some of the data is reasonable for a scenario where a counter
is
>> being used to measure OCXOs.
>>>
>>> Looking at the ADEV plot, I'd say the blue trace (HP105B vs 5065A) is
>> the most questionable one if it came from a standalone TIC or frequency
>> counter, because 7E-12 @ t=1s isn't achievable with most counters under
>> most circumstances. A Wavecrest box can measure at that level if it's
set
>> up _perfectly_ to take bursts of 100+ wrap-free averages within a small
>> fraction of the t0 interval. It might also be doable with an HP 5370A/B
>> under similar conditions, but I'd have less confidence that the
averaging
>> isn't distorting the measurement. So while It looks like a valid
>> measurement of an OCXO with some minor crosstalk or other external
>> interference, that may just be a coincidence.
>>>
>>> Luciano, how was the blue trace taken? Is this from your DMTD project?
>> If so, it's looking promising.
>>>
>>> The green and magenta traces are definitely in the right ballpark for
>> measurements on a 5370-class counter. At 3E-11 @ t=12s the magenta
trace is
>> optimistic but not outrageously so, while the green trace looks exactly
>> like I'd expect for a typical 10811 measured on a 5370. The observed
noise
>> is due entirely to the counter until about t=200s. We see a glimpse of
the
>> 10811's typical ADEV at about 250 seconds, just before either drift or
ADEV
>> uncertainty causes the trace to turn upwards. A longer run would be
needed
>> to distinguish between these two situations.
>>>
>>> -- john, KE5FX
>>> Miles Design LLC
>>>
>>>
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