[time-nuts] patents and hobbyist projects (was: Temperature controlled TCVCXO)

[Tom Holmes]

I know of at least one lawyer on this list who has some knowledge of this subject, but he has held off from chiming in. Maybe he is waiting for the smoke to clear.

Tom Holmes, N8ZM


-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Caudle
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 10:15 AM
To: timenut at metachaos.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts at febo.com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] patents and hobbyist projects (was: Temperature controlled TCVCXO)

On Sun, May 15, 2016 8:08 pm, timenut at metachaos.net wrote:
> If I understand it correctly,

I would say you do not.

Mike S already covered that by posting the section of US Code 35 which
describes what constitutes patent infringement.

35 U.S.C. 271 Infringement of patent.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this title, whoever without
authority makes, uses, offers to sell, or sells any patented invention,
within the United States, or imports into the United States any patented
invention during the term of the patent therefor, infringes the patent.

Note that "offers to sell" is an "or" condition along with "makes" or "uses."

There are some exceptions as described elsewhere, so as a practical matter
if you make something for your own use it is extremely unlikely to have
any legal consequences.

-- 
Chris Caudle


On Sun, May 15, 2016 8:08 pm, timenut at metachaos.net wrote:
> If I understand it correctly, you only violate a patent if you
manufacture
> and
> SELL a product covered by the patent. If you build it for yourself, then
there
> is no violation. Even if you are a company, and you build one for
testing
> and
> evaluation, as long as you don't sell it there is no violation. That is
because there is no "harm" to the patent holder. They have to show that
your
> production affected their potential sales and rights to profit from the
patent. If you build a bunch and GIVE them away, that counts as a
violation as
> well. Of course, giving is just selling with a zero price.
>
> Michael
>
>> In addition to what others write about nobody will come after you for
hobbyist/testing purposes...
>
>> It is surprisingly easy for a patent non-professional to be confused,
about
>> what a patent actually covers (claims) vs does not cover (claim).
>
>> There is a section called "description" that is useful and interesting for
>> techie guys. Especially when the patent was the result of a actual real
device, anyone skilled in the field will be able to read the
>> "description"
>> section of a patent and figure out the device and learn something from the
>> patent. The "citations" and "referred to by" are usually interesting
reading too.
>
>> Beyond that, there is a section called "claims" that actually sets out the
>> legal language about what the inventors, and their patent lawyers, and the
>> patent examiner, eventually decided (probably over a period of months
to
>> years) could be patented. Reading the claim section is surprisingly
tricky.
>> Lots of interesting things (to you and me) in the description are probably
>> not actually claimed because they were claimed by previous patents (See
the
>> patent citations at the bottom). When I'm in a room with the patent
lawyers
>> and they are telling me how to read it, I can manage to follow them and
even learn a little bit of the patent phrase-ology in a way that makes
sense to me. These lessons in patent phrase-ology stick with me for
only
>> a
>> matter of days after we leave the room. The language of the claims is very
>> highly specialized, and even further the patent lawyers have
"optimized"
>> the claims, so that base claims are elaborated on in a very complicated
and
>> ornate way in later claims such that a challenge to any one claim of
the
>> patent will have minimized the effect on negating the whole patent.
>
>> Tim N3QE
>
>> On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 5:56 AM, Attila Kinali <attila at kinali.ch>
wrote:
>
>>> On Fri, 13 May 2016 19:32:58 -0500
>>> David <davidwhess at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Thanks for those.  I went over them pretty carefully and what I am
proposing is not covered by either although that would not protect
me
>>> > from a debilitating patent lawsuit.
>>> I wouldn't worry about patent lawsuits at all unless you intend to
start a multi-million business.
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>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Timenut                            mailto:timenut at metachaos.net
>
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