[time-nuts] hm H Maser

[Javier Herrero]

Hello,

Two kind of clocks were developed and qualified, a Rb and the PHM, and 
it seems that this is the cost for the development of both (since it 
mentions two on-board clock technologies). And this includes the 
development of breadboards (EBBs, really full-fledged prototypes with no 
qualified parts) and of qualification models ( 
http://www.spectratime.com/uploads/documents/ispace/PTTI_FCS_RAFS_PHM_2005.pdf 
), designed and manufactured with flight-quality components since the 
EQMs are submitted to all testing (thermal vacuum, vibration, life, 
EMC...) to levels a lot more estringent than those applicable for a 
commercial-use maser.

Taking into account that GIOVE-B (used as the in-flight test bed for the 
PHM) cost was 72M€, surely excluding launch and deployment costs, I 
suppose that excluding the PHM itself, it seem that 100M€ is the order 
of magnitude for the development including in-flight testing platform.

Regards,

Javier


On 10/01/2017 17:22, Ole Petter Rønningen wrote:
> "The European Commission and the European Space Agency have approved the Galileo GNSS programme. Two experimental satellites will be launched in late 2005 or early 2006. Atomic clocks are critical for satellite navigation. After more than ten years of development and an overall budget of € 30M, two onboard clock technologies have been qualified. The author considers their current status and performance."
>
> https://www.gim-international.com/content/article/onboard-galileo-atomic-clocks
>
> Ole
>
>> Den 10. jan. 2017 kl. 14.18 skrev ewkehren via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com>:
>>
>> Do we know what the PHM development for Galileo cost?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Samsung tabletBob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:Hi
>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <drkirkby at kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Once 9 Jan 2017 12:59, "Bob Camp" <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Ok here are some rough numbers:
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 9, 2017, at 4:35 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
>>> drkirkby at kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It would be interesting to see your breakdown of the costs and man hours
>>>>> for an H2 maser. I suspect that others would find cheaper/faster
>>> solutions.
>>>> $100M for the H2
>>>>
>>>> $25M for the Rb
>>> With all due respect,  and I apprectiate you have a good knowledge of this
>>> field, but that's not a breakdown of costs or man hours I wanted to see,
>>> but a cost which appears to be plucked from the air.
>> Hardly plucked from the air. The last Rb design that I was involved with was
>> roughly 5X that expensive.
>>
>>> There's a BIG difference between a volunteer effort where
>>>
>>> * Salaries are not paid
>>> * Items of test equipment are likely to be borrowed or people provide
>>> access to them for no charge etc,
>>> * Academics are likely to provide consultancy for free, in return for being
>>> on papers published.
>>> * Software licenses could probably be obtained free,  or enough people get
>>> trials.
>> That’s where the 5:1 cost reduction comes from.
>>
>>> compared to a commercial company building a maser where
>>>
>>> * Salaries are paid
>>> * All equipment is purchased new
>>> * Bench power supplies with 3.5 digit displays are sent out for calibration
>>> each year.
>>> *  No outside body will do anything except at a commercial rate.
>>> * Flights are booked for meetings which could be done over the Internet.
>>> * High end software licenses are huge.
>>>
>>>> $500M for the fountain.
>>> But on what basis do you arrive at that figure?
>> The numbers that the people who have done it come up with when you talk to them.
>>
>>>> To get sponsorship for anything remotely close to those numbers, you
>>>> need to have some massively good credentials.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>> Yes agreed at $500M. But someone like Tom, who does have massively good
>>> credentials, could perhaps get $500,000, and perhaps that wisely spent
>>> could get a fountain built.  Without knowing how you arrive at $500M, it is
>>> not possible for anyone to look at ways of shaving that cost.
>>
>> This is *not* a cheap field to be doing things in ….
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>> The Lovell Telescope at Jodrell Bank in the UK was built on a shoestring
>>> budget. It was at the time the world's  largest steerable radio telephone.
>>> Half a century later only 2 larger ones have been built.
>>>
>>> Maybe I am too nieve.
>>>
>>> Dave.
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-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Javier Herrero
Chief Technology Officer                           EMAIL: jherrero at hvsistemas.com
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