[time-nuts] J06 HP-59992A time interval calibrator for HP-531xx counters

[Orin Eman]

FWIW, the "Theory" section here may help:

http://www.g8wrb.org/data///HP/Better_than_100_ps_Accuracy_in_HP_5370B_Time_Interval_Measurements_Through_Bias_Error_Reduction.pdf

Phase errors through the splitters seem to be taken into account.

The J06-59992A manual merely claims 100ps absolute accuracy is possible
with the 5370A/B.



On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 7:48 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Based on a quick read of the use of the device, they seem to be relying on
> it to be << 100 ps
> off from “ideal”.  How much it being non-ideal matters …. not clear. If
> you are correcting for various errors
> and eliminating both unknown source errors and destination errors it
> likely gets messy.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Jul 8, 2017, at 9:14 PM, Tom Van Baak <tvb at leapsecond.com> wrote:
> >
> > I knew we had talked about this before:
> > https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2006-August/021649.html
> >
> > The J06-59992A manual, schematic, app note, and patent are here:
> > http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/instruments/hp/J06-59992A/
> >
> > It was designed for the hp 5370 (20 ps) so perhaps the tolerances are
> less stringent if only used for hp 53132 (150 ps). Maybe one of you RF guys
> can tell from the schematic?
> >
> > Mark writes:
> >> Yes, they do show up...  but usually for big-ish bucks.   I want to
> build a small affordable replacement that anybody with a 531xx can have.
> >
> > I don't recall them being expensive at all, just unusual. But making a
> modern one for time nuts is a great idea -- both 5370 and 53131/53132
> users. Also, when someone gets around to creating a smart analog front-end
> to John's TAPR TICC board, your 59992A clone will come in handy.
> >
> > Note also this recent document by Bill Riley:
> >
> > http://www.stable32.com/A%20High-Resolution%20Time%
> 20Interval%20Counter%20Using%20the%20TAPR%20TADD-2%20and%
> 20TICC%20Modules.pdf
> >
> > Hal writes:
> >> What does "good" mean?
> >> I'd expect the variations due to power or temperature would be easy to
> measure.
> >> Delay through classic CMOS is linear with absolute temperature and
> inverse linear with supply voltage.
> >
> > When John created the TAPR TADD-2-mini board I tested the jitter using a
> TimePod (integrated phase noise mode). I'm looking for the web page or
> email now, but I recall it was under 2 ps. This is partly due to the fact
> that the PIC 12F is a fully synchronous MCU; no tricks with double clock
> edges or PLL's.
> >
> > /tvb
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bruce Griffiths" <bruce.griffiths at xtra.co.nz>
> > To: "Mark Sims" <holrum at hotmail.com>; "Discussion of precise time and
> frequency measurement" <time-nuts at febo.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2017 4:48 PM
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] J06 HP-59992A time interval calibrator for
> HP-531xx counters
> >
> >
> >> A run of the mill 2 way power splitter has better than 10ps phase
> matching at 100MHz there are few digital devices that offer that degree of
> matching at best they are usually 10x worse.
> >>
> >> Bruce
> >>
> >>>
> >>>    On 09 July 2017 at 06:58 Mark Sims <holrum at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>    Yes, they do show up... but usually for big-ish bucks. I want to
> build a small affordable replacement that anybody with a 531xx can have.
> >>>
> >>>    My design is currently leaning towards a board with the clock
> generator and a 5V reference for the gain calibration (they spec 5V +/-
> 1mV). I was going to use a couple of 2P4T slide switches to route open
> circuit, 5V, normal clock, and inverted clock to the two output connectors.
> >>>
> >>>    I think the cost to build would be in the $20 range and fit on a
> 2x2" or so circuit board... certainly more attractive than a $500 big
> ancient box with unobtainium parts in it. The board should be able to
> perform all the calibration steps for the counter.
> >>>
> >>>    I don't think the signal requirements are super critical. They are
> using 1:2 splitters and splitter/180 degree phase shifters and relays to
> generate the output signals passively from the inputs. I think a digital
> clock generator would be a LOT more accurate than those phase shifters.
> >>>
> >>>    ----------------
> >>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>        Actually, you can get J06 HP-59992A calibrators on eBay.
> >>>>
> >
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