# [time-nuts] HP5061B Versus HP5071 Cesium Line Frequencies

Bob kb8tq kb8tq at n1k.org
Fri Jun 2 18:48:14 EDT 2017

```Hi

How many OCXO’s have you actually built?

Bob

> On Jun 2, 2017, at 5:51 PM, Donald E. Pauly <trojancowboy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> # 2 is not true.  A cut has either two turning points or zero.  Where
> both turning points exist there are two temperatures at which the
> temperature coefficient of frequency is zero.  Cut 0 on figure 6 at
> https://coloradocrystal.com/applications has no turnover point.  It is
> neither fish nor fowl.  Cut 6 is the normal AT curve with extremes of
> ±16 ppm for -55° C thru +105° C.  All curves normally intersect at 25°
> C rather than the 27° C shown.  25° C is half way between -55° C thru
> +105° C.  Curve 6 is the Tchebychev polynomial y=4x^3-3x and curve 0
> is y=4x^3.
>
> Consider the standard AT cut which has turnover points at -15° C and
> 65° C.  The lower turnover would ordinarily not be used in ovens.  A
> set point error of ±1° C in the upper turnover point at 65° C results
> in a frequency error of +14.875·10^-9.  For cut 0, that same ±1° error
> in room temperature results in a frequency error of  ±31.25·10^-12.
> This is an improvement of 476 to 1.  You apparently have not thought
> thru what improvements are possible with thermal coolers/heaters.
> Among these is near instant warm up and greatly reduced power for
> thermal management.
>
> πθ°μΩω±√·Γ
> WB0KVV
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org>
> Date: Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 12:43 PM
> Subject: Re: HP5061B Versus HP5071 Cesium Line Frequencies
> To: "Donald E. Pauly" <trojancowboy at gmail.com>
>
> Hi
>
> Which statement is not true:
>
> 1) That there is a tolerance on the cut angle of a crystal?
>
> 2) That true zero temperature coefficient only happens at the turn?
>
> 3) That heater based controllers are impossible to build?
>
> Bob
>
> On Jun 2, 2017, at 3:40 PM, Donald E. Pauly <trojancowboy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That is not true.  I say that thermal coolers have made ovens
> obsolete.  A zero temperature coefficient at room temperature is
> easier to hit than a zero temperature at the upper turnover point when
> such a thing exists.  See
> curve 0 in Figure 6 at https://coloradocrystal.com/applications/ .
>
> πθ°μΩω±√·Γ
> WB0KVV
>
>
> On Friday, June 2, 2017, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Any real crystal you buy will have a tolerance on the angle. In the case of a crystal cut for turn
>> the temperature will be a bit different and you will match your oven to it. If you attempt a zero
>> angle cut, you will never really hit it and there is no way to compensate for the problem.
>>
>> Bob
>>
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```