[time-nuts] Phase Noise Modeling in SPICE

Ulrich Rohde ka2weu at aol.com
Fri Oct 27 16:56:20 EDT 2017


See below .....
 
In a message dated 10/27/2017 3:02:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, attila at kinali.ch writes:

 
 Hoi Ulrich,

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 18:31:33 -0400
Ulrich Rohde via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:

> Eric has done a lot of excellent work, I know his presentations . While
> I do no always agree with the ADS approach and use my own software the ADS
> is a very good all-round CAD microwave CAD tool. More on the topic addressed 
> you will find under 
> http://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/29151-noise-analysis-then-and-today

Perfectly timed article! :-)
I did not have time to go through all the references yet, but I have a few
questions:

1) Is it possible to get 
U. L. Rohde, A. M. Pavio and R. A. Pucel, “Accurate Noise Simulation of Microwave Amplifiers Using CAD,” Microwave Journal, Vol. 31, No. 12, December 1988, pp. 130-141.YES  
somewhere? MWJ is pretty bad when it comes to accessing old issues.

2) How do you come up with accurate noise models/parameters for the transistors?
As far as I can tell, the spice models provided by the manufacturers have
often only a very crude approximation of what the real noise parameters
look like (if any at all) and have to be corrected to match reality.See my math derivation in 
The Design of Modern Microwave Oscillators for Wireless... - Google Scholar

3) What about the ADS approach do you not like? Not enough information about the math used ... possible shortcuts to be fast 

4) What is your own software? And would it be possible to get access to it?Ansoft Serenade Desktop  Program 


Side note: I do not fully understand how spice (or CAE software in general)
performs noise simulation, hence I do not trust it. So the simulations
I do are kind of syntetic that only take certain noise sources into account
which I deemed the ones dominating. It is typically an approximation 

 Attila Kinali
-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson



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