[time-nuts] Phase Noise Modeling in SPICE

Ulrich Rohde ka2weu at aol.com
Fri Oct 27 16:46:20 EDT 2017

yes, where to ?
In a message dated 10/27/2017 3:26:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, kc0wjn at gmail.com writes:

 With respect to your first question, I subscribe to MWJ and, after a 
modest amount of looking on the web, find that the MWJ archives seem to 
go back only as far as 2002. I was unable to locate a copy of the 1988 
paper elsewhere on the web, which seems strange. Perhaps someone out 
there has a paper copy and can scan it. I would also imagine that a 
paper copy could be located in some university library.

But then, you have probably already been down those same paths.


On 10/27/2017 1:01 PM, Attila Kinali wrote:
> Hoi Ulrich,
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 18:31:33 -0400
> Ulrich Rohde via time-nuts <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
>> Eric has done a lot of excellent work, I know his presentations . While
>> I do no always agree with the ADS approach and use my own software the ADS
>> is a very good all-round CAD microwave CAD tool. More on the topic addressed
>> you will find under
>> http://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/29151-noise-analysis-then-and-today
> Perfectly timed article! :-)
> I did not have time to go through all the references yet, but I have a few
> questions:
> 1) Is it possible to get
> U. L. Rohde, A. M. Pavio and R. A. Pucel, “Accurate Noise Simulation of Microwave Amplifiers Using CAD,” Microwave Journal, Vol. 31, No. 12, December 1988, pp. 130-141.
> somewhere? MWJ is pretty bad when it comes to accessing old issues.
> 2) How do you come up with accurate noise models/parameters for the transistors?
> As far as I can tell, the spice models provided by the manufacturers have
> often only a very crude approximation of what the real noise parameters
> look like (if any at all) and have to be corrected to match reality.
> 3) What about the ADS approach do you not like?
> 4) What is your own software? And would it be possible to get access to it?
> Side note: I do not fully understand how spice (or CAE software in general)
> performs noise simulation, hence I do not trust it. So the simulations
> I do are kind of syntetic that only take certain noise sources into account
> which I deemed the ones dominating.
> Attila Kinali

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