[volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
Randy Evans
randyevans2688 at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 16:46:51 EDT 2014
I finally found it after I realized I had to select the LONG MENU first.
Thanks,
Randy
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:27 AM, Charles Black <cblack at centurytel.net>
wrote:
> Hit the grey key in the "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. Then hit "T" (light
> grey marking) in the "MENU" key block Then hit down arrow twice in the
> "FUNCTION/RANGE" key block. You will now have TEMP? on the display. Then
> hit the "Enter" key in the "NUMERIC/USER" key block. Now you should see the
> TEMP? value in degrees Celsius.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 8/17/2014 8:48 PM, Randy Evans wrote:
>
>> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
>> front panel TEMP? command. I have played around but I am doing something
>> wrong.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV. So far it looks good except for
>>> the display.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458". So blu C "CAL
>>>> 0,3458" "Enter".
>>>>
>>>> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bill,
>>>>>
>>>>> You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
>>>>>
>>>> RANGE
>>>>
>>>>> -- CAL secured"). That would be consistent with what you are saying.
>>>>> I
>>>>> guess its no reason to panic yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command. I guess it's time to open
>>>>>
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Randy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a ACAL.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You
>>>>
>>>>> have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the ZERO
>>>>>> calibration. Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
>>>>>>
>>>>> factory
>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>>> way. But someone could have changed it in the past. You can do this
>>>>>>
>>>>> from
>>>>
>>>>> the front panel menu using the SECURE command. But there is a jumper
>>>>>> inside
>>>>>> the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can do
>>>>>>
>>>>> any
>>>>
>>>>> CAL or reset the password to what you want. So everything is working
>>>>>>
>>>>> as
>>>>
>>>>> expected. The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
>>>>>>
>>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>> 66515 on the left of the meter inside. Try "3458" first as most are
>>>>>>
>>>>> set
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> this password. Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
>>>>>>
>>>>> inside
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> the meter. You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
>>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> accomplish this. Again in the Cal Manual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> command
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> get an ERR on the display. I assume this is not good. Did I do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> this
>>>>
>>>>> correctly?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Randy:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual. Make
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yourself
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> "4
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC. After
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ACAL I
>>>>
>>>>> now
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> read +000.00002 mVDC. I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would expect
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> meter should return to a low value, and it does. I do get a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> variation
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations. As I
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> remember
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with
>>>> 100
>>>>
>>>>> PLC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the statistics show:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Low reading -70 nVDC
>>>>>>>> Mean reading -28 nVDC
>>>>>>>> High reading +3.5 nVDC
>>>>>>>> Total Variation 73 nVDC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After
>>>> an
>>>>
>>>>> hour
>>>>>>>> the room had gone up around 1 degree C. Then I observed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -000.00023
>>>>
>>>>> mVDC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC. This
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> particular
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> requiring
>>>>
>>>>> low
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nanovolts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> choose
>>>>
>>>>> "Parts". Then enter in the "Part Number" "03458-66517" which is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> replacement
>>>>
>>>>> part
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> number on the right hand side. Click on that and you will get the
>>>>>>>> information about the exchange program and so on. Looks like you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can
>>>>
>>>>> just
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> create or use an existing login account.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I needed a new display a few years ago. At that time you
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> could
>>>>
>>>>> order
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> just the display for around $80. Being extremely good at removing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> then
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> inserting and soldering I ordered the part. The problem was that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed. It went from
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1.3
>>>>>>>> inches to around 1.5 inches. So I had to bend the pins to fit my
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> display
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the PC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Board.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It took hours. This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>
>>>>> let
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole PC
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Board
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> assembly. It did work just fine once installed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> volt-nuts at febo.com>
>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting note. After the room cooled down from about 79F to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73F,
>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>
>>>>> value,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe that is OK? If so, then the only issue would seem to be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> display
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>
>>>>> doing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON, I short the input
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> leads
>>>>
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> approximately
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -000.0023 mVDC. That seems rather high. I would expect the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> unit
>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the input leads internally and force a zero reading during the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ACAL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone have any comments on this reading?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Randy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <richiem5683 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> measurements
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> measurements,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last use.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>
>>>>> autocal
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do cal
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>
>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>
>>>>> got
>>>>>> my
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3458
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me -- warmed
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> up,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> aided
>>>>
>>>>> by
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> HP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3325, and another 3458.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "exchange"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> changed)
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> also
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> chips.
>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> complete,
>>>>
>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> incoming
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> process
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>>> any
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> good
>>>>
>>>>> thing.
>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1ppm/year.
>>>>
>>>>> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>
>>>>> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under $400
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> including
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> first-time
>>>>
>>>>> cals;
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> unit was in their data bank.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> send
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>>> for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10 minutes
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>
>>>>> you
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> should be good to go.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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