[volt-nuts] Newbie here...

Bob Albert bob91343 at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 23 13:21:11 EST 2014


Well all comments are appreciated and well noted.  The 3456A is indeed a Pandora's box and is, as suggested, on the back burner for now.


As for the Dana, I have tried all the above.  I replaced one IC that seemed to be the root of the trouble, to no avail.  The unit is very clean.  I spray cooled it when it did its trouble thing and it came back to operation but I haven't been able to find the offending component or solder joint.  Power supply seems good throughout.


I paid so little for this, and I have so many other units, that I am loath to spend money on a diagram, especially when it is no guarantee of giving me the needed information.  Plus, the 300-page HP manual is free for download, so it feels like the tail is wagging the dog here.

I will pay attention to the KO4BB site for when the HP manual will appear.

But if I need to measure something, I certainly have the tools to do it.  If the voltage is above 1 kV I have my Simpson 260 and Triplett 630-NA for that.  And I am ashamed to admit, a couple Radio Schlock VOMs.  The whole thing here is that I enjoy playing with accurate stuff even though I have no legitimate use for 6-digit voltage measurements.

One thing about the HP that appeals is the accurate Ohmmeter.  I have a GR 1658 bridge that is very accurate but it doesn't measure at DC, so is cumbersome for inductors, etc.

And of course the delightful little toy, the Harbor Freight DVM, is a bargain that can't be approached by 'normal' units.  I have several of them and, within their limitations, they are great units.  There is a calibrate pot inside that takes care of any ordinary reading errors.  And if I blow it up, I pick up another without that dreaded feeling of having broken something valuable.

Bob




On Sunday, February 23, 2014 3:55 AM, Artek Manuals <Manuals at ArtekManuals.com> wrote:
 
Bob et all

1) We have a 1st class scan of the R-D 4200, manual with complete 
schematics available at a modest price
2) We have a VERY NICE scan  (NOT a retread of the poor quality of 
Agilent scan) 600dpi scans of the schematics full size up to 27"x 11" 
unpieced, again at a very modest price
3) I am sorry but we dont have manuals for the EI or Valhalla unit at 
the moment but I have added them to my "watch for these list"

I have been following your saga on the 3456A repair on the Agilent forum 
and don't have much to add except to say this is not a trivial unit to 
troubleshoot because of the overly (IMO) complex nature of the beast . 
To paraphrase the old nursery rhyme, "When they are good they are very 
very good but when they are bad they are horrid". I'd probably put that 
one on the back burner till you get more time , patience and experience. 
Then sit down and a read the theory of operation section of the manual 
till you can recite the whole thing by heart..THEN go digging into 
boards. With a unit this complex there are scores of feedback and 
reference check loops that it is often difficult to ascertain when 
troubleshooting  what is a " root cause" and what is an "effect" of some 
other defect elsewhere in the circuit

ON the erratic Racal unit, by comparison this is an easier unit to 
repair with a fairly clean layout of the main board. I would start by 
carefully unplugging and reseating all cable connectors and the Data I/O 
board, Display board and power supply diode board. next once the unit 
begins its erratic behavior after warm up, look at ( with a scope ) the 
AC ripple  on the DC +5V and +20V supply buses . Most likely suspects 
with any unit more than 25 years old ( aren't they all?) are the 
Electrolytic and Tantalum capacitors followed by solder joints that just 
need to be re-flowed. Given the lower complexity of the Dana main board 
the joints could all be re-flowed in  1/2 hour, One other common source 
of noise are the calibration pots...which need to be turned back and 
forth a few times to clean the wipers.. of course after this brilliant 
move you will need to do a complete recalibration of the unit.

Good luck
Dave
ArtekManuals





OnceOn 2/23/2014 1:07 AM, Bob Albert wrote:
> Pete,
>
> The EI is in three parts connected by many massive cables.  When I say it's pretty close, I mean it agrees with everything else I feel is close.  The 3456A has a -12V reference which the EI measures at -12.0026 or so.  It uses an oven so it takes a half hour to settle.  I have pics of the panel and would post them if I knew how.
>
>
> The Valhalla is actually a good meter but one range has a small problem.  The Racal-Dana is unfixable because I can't find a manual, short of spending more than the meter is worth.  Those two units are very similar; the main difference is 1) the Valhalla measures AC current and 2) the Dana has a very sensitive DC microammeter such that I can measure diode leakage.
>
> I am befuddled by the HP3456A.  I have replaced some parts but so far it's not doing its thing.  I have the manual but it sucks, not having a proper schematic diagram nor a board trace layout.
>
> The Calib Stds unit is nice, a manually operated slideback DC volts only unit, compact and easy to use.  Again, no manual available and, in fact, no mention of the company anywhere online.  They were in Los Angeles area.
>
> The main reason I want to fix these is that I hate owning anything that doesn't work.  And I like knowing my meters are accurate as well as precise.
>
> I also have some 10V reference ICs that have been around here a few years.  They all agree within a few mV.  I made a permanent reference out of them with a switch to select each, and they are running whenever I am in the lab.
>
> Bob
>
> <TRIM>


-- 
Dave
Manuals at ArtekManuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com


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