[time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 106, Issue 110

[steve gunsel]

Bill,

I have an HP3335 and often use it. I hope mine will keep running!
I'm sure there are others who could make good use of one of them.

Steve, N8MYA



At 01:06 AM 5/23/2013, you wrote:
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: 9390 GPS RX (Tom Knox)
>    2. TrueTime TL-3 WWV Receiver (Majdi S. Abbas)
>    3. Re: Extron ADA 6 as 1/5/10 MHz DA (Charles P. Steinmetz)
>    4. Re: Net4501's cheap... (Jim Sanford)
>    5. Downsizing dilemma, HP 3335A (Bill Hawkins)
>    6. Re: Net4501's cheap... (Chris Albertson)
>    7. Re: Net4501's cheap... (Don Latham)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 13:19:12 -0600
>From: Tom Knox <actast at hotmail.com>
>To: Time-Nuts <time-nuts at febo.com>
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX
>Message-ID: <BAY162-W38A639CCEDFDD1C9ADAC84DFA90 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>I am sure someone brought this up already,  you appear to be seeing 
>the rubidium attempting to lock. The sweeping is the oscillators 
>attempt to find the  Rubidium Resonance. It should lock in 15-20 minutes.
>
>Thomas Knox
>
>Remember tact is the art of making someone feel at home........when 
>you wish they were.
>
>
> > From: marks at non-stop.com.au
> > To: time-nuts at febo.com
> > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 10:58:08 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX
> >
> > It's a 9390-55024
> >
> > I have plugged my counter into the Efratom rubidium oscillator 
> thing and disconnected the EFC.
> >
> > It is actually wobbling ~ +/-650Hz, peaking as much as +/- 1KHz.
> > So, hazarding a guess, something is very wrong inside the black box thing.
> >
> > My biggest fear is, wherever will I get the 'Winchester' 
> connector used on this oscillator?
> >
> > What I mean is, for a proper bench job, according to the manual, 
> I'd have to remove the whole rubidium from the 9390 and put it on 
> the clean bench for disassembly.
> > Then I can connect various voltmeters to monitor the various 
> signals, and if needed, replace parts and re-align.
> > However, I am unwilling to lop off the connector in the 9390, to 
> only have to put it back on/in after Mr. Balls Efratom is back to normal.
> >
> > The other way, I suppose is to bodge up wires from the inside of 
> the connector to some sort of temporary Jig for the service job.
> >
> > Reading the Most Interesting FRK.PDF, it sounds like the crystal 
> oscillator assembly has issues, whether the crystal oven is broken or similar.
> > That is a really interesting document, worth the read, even just 
> for the heck of it ;)
> >
> > -marki
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com 
> [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley
> > Sent: Wednesday, 22 May 2013 7:16 PM
> > To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > What is the full model number (from label on rear)? It will be 9390-xxxx.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com 
> [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark C. Stephens
> > Sent: 22 May 2013 07:56
> > To: time-nuts at febo.com
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 9390 GPS RX
> >
> > Just a Follow up,
> >
> > I checked the 10 Mhz output of the 9390 and it was... ~12 MHz.
> > Uhuh, Wiggling some cables I came across one that when pressure 
> was put on it, the frequency dropped back to 10Mhz.
> > The was J9 on the main (logic?) board.
> >
> > Now I need to mention this particular 9390 has a separate board for the
> > 16.368 oscillator.
> > From the photo's I posted earlier, it is the 2nd card in from the 
> front on the right.
> > From earlier posts I have gathered this is normally present on 
> the Trimble GPS monstrosity.
> > My Point is, this particular 9390 isn't your average model.
> >
> > With the frequency now at 10 Mhz I tried a number of different 
> antennae / terminator combinations and eventually I was able to 
> find a satellite.
> > Just 1? And it dropped in and out all the time.
> >
> > Watching the 10 Mhz, it was drifting  +/- 500Hz.
> >
> > That definitely wouldn't do, so I plugged the house standard into the
> > (external) time base input and the 9390 10 Mhz output became stable.
> > After a few minutes, I had 2 satellites! Cool.. 5 minutes we had 
> 4 birds and we are doing "GPS Correction"
> >
> > Being the inquisitive sort I went in reverse, unplugging the 
> house standard from the (external) time base input.
> > Uhuh, we are back to 1 satellite dropping in and out. The GPS 
> receiver definitely doesn't like the 10MHz reference wobbling about 
> all over the place like a drunk sailor on shore leave..
> >
> > Of course I plugged the House standard back in and we are in 
> business again with 4 Satellites, locked and loading.
> > No drop outs either. Interesting.
> >
> > So My question is, (mostly to myself) Is the Efratom FRK Faulty 
> and the root of the Drift?
> > And how do I fix it, I ask myself?
> >
> > I have downloaded the FRK manual for perusal, I believe there is 
> an external adjustment to bring it into lock area.
> > It may also be a problem with the PLL loop, fun stuff because I 
> don't have a schematic.
> >
> > You see, the service manual I was supplied with when I purchased 
> the 9390 isn't for this unit.
> > It's for the much newer varieties.
> > There is no mention of this particular Trimble GPS receiver with 
> its multiple sub-boards nor mention of a FRK oscillator in it.
> >
> > I did a search of earlier time nuts posts and found there are 
> quite a few time nuts with 9390's, although there appear to be 
> drastic differences between the different 9390's.
> > Perhaps I should be going on the postfix, for instance mine is a 
> 9390-55024.
> >
> > Bah, I just noticed the GPS day is wrong, I think we are ~142 but 
> its saying 278, Is that a GPS receiver bug?
> >
> > So, Any helpful navigation hints before I embark on this Journey?
> >
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Marki
> >
> > From: Mark C. Stephens
> > Sent: Tuesday, 21 May 2013 8:42 PM
> > To: 'time-nuts at febo.com'
> > Subject: 9390 GPS RX
> >
> > Hello Fellow time nuts,
> >
> > I received a Datum 9390 GPS receiver I bought off eBay today. It 
> had a PSU fault and I am running it off a bench supply until I can 
> get the PSU working again. All the PSU does is supplies 28V so I 
> can probably adopt a more recent supply to fit if I can't fix the 
> old one. I pulled the PSU apart and so far found a blown triac. 
> There is bound to be more 'things' blown but I want to see if it's 
> worth repairing first. I mean, it's not much use repairing 
> something that proves to be useless?
> >
> > Funnily enough in the back of the Manual binder was a second 
> manual. A service Manual for a Trimble 5000A GPS/TIME frequency 
> monitor. I'll scan it if anyone needs it?
> >
> > This particular 9390 is an odd Chap, doesn't look at all like 
> picture in the supplied manual.
> > http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/9390-fr.jpg
> >
> > When I opened it up,
> > 
> http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/9390-insides.jpg 
> I saw an Efratom FRK!
> > http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/frk.jpg
> >
> >
> > I am having a bit of problem identifying the GPS module. It says 
> Trimble navigation on the board:
> > http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/gps-bd.jpg
> > I measured the antenna Jack for the expected 15V normally on a 
> Datum 9390, but found it was 5.1 volts.
> > I could not get rid of the Antenna feed error until I put a 50 
> ohm terminator on it. I tried higher values (75-180R) but the only 
> value that cleared the feed error was 50 ohms. So I used a BNC 
> 'tee' and terminated the output of the GPS distribution amp to the 
> 9390. I fear this GPS RX requires an antenna with a down-convertor 
> -or- a whacking great L1 signal. I always thought the 9390 had a 
> Trimble svee6 module in them. But this one's positively ancient.
> > I have entered my approximate co-ordinates to see if it finds any 
> birds but so far no luck.
> >
> > If you know anything about this GPS board, please leave me a message?
> >
> > The interface convertor from the Trimble to the Datum:
> > 
> http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/gps-bd-if.jpg 
> is labelled "Datum TANS interface".
> >
> >
> >
> > Marki
> >
> >
> > Complete blog post is here: http://www.vk2hmc.net/blog/?p=178
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go 
> to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com To unsubscribe, go 
> to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 14:45:18 -0400
>From: "Majdi S. Abbas" <msa at latt.net>
>To: time-nuts at febo.com
>Subject: [time-nuts] TrueTime TL-3 WWV Receiver
>Message-ID: <20130522184518.GA15961 at puck.nether.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>         Does anyone happen to have a manual, or at least a pinout
>for the 8 pin mini-DIN serial port?  It doesn't appear to be one of
>the common mini-DIN serial arrangements.
>
>         If you do have a manual, I'm really just interested in the
>pinout and serial command set.
>
>         Any help greatly appreciated,
>
>         --msa
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 18:30:14 -0400
>From: "Charles P. Steinmetz" <charles_steinmetz at lavabit.com>
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>         <time-nuts at febo.com>
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Extron ADA 6 as 1/5/10 MHz DA
>Message-ID: <20130522223018.AE40F11BADD at karen.lavabit.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>What I have been referring to as the "plain ADA 6" is properly known
>as the ADA 6 Component:
>
><www.extron.com/download/files/userman/ADA6ComponentB.pdf>
>
>Judging from the dates on some of Extron's documents, it appears to
>be a newer model than the ADA 6 300 series -- which is consistent
>with Bruce's comment that his ADA 6 300MX had through-hole
>resistors.  Accordingly, it is possible that the ADA 6 300 models do
>not share the circuit I attached to my last e-mail.  As always, use
>due diligence!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles
>
>
> >Following the recent discussion of using the Extron ADA 6 as a
> >distribution amplifier for 1/5/10 MHz reference signals, I dug out
> >the schematic of the amplifiers and typed up my notes re:
> >modifications (see attached).
> >
> >Note that the ones I have are "plain" ADA 6's, not "MX" or
> >"MX-HV."  I do not know if the MX or MX-HV units use this circuit
> >or, if they do, if the component numbers are the same.  However, the
> >gain-switching circuitry is present on the "plain" ADA 6 PC cards
> >(but the switch itself is not), which leads me to believe that at
> >least the MX version was built with this same card.
> >
> >There may be other Extron video DAs that use this circuit -- in
> >particular, models that have a PC card parallel to the rear panel
> >and mounted to it by the BNC connectors may do so.
> >
> >There is another, discrete design that Extron apparently produced at
> >the same time, one example of which is the ADA 3 180.  This design
> >cannot drive 50 ohm loads to +13dBm (1 Vrms) without severe
> >distortion (negative peak clipping), so you need to attenuate the
> >typical 1 Vrms input signal 6 dB to stay out of
> >clipping.  Unfortunately, there is no easy way to modify this design
> >to drive +13dBm into 50 ohms (and, IMO, there is a lot not to like
> >about it for any use, including RGB video).  I have a schematic of
> >that circuit, too, if anyone needs it.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Charles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:31:44 -0400
>From: Jim Sanford <wb4gcs at wb4gcs.org>
>To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
>         <time-nuts at febo.com>
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Net4501's cheap...
>Message-ID: <519D7180.3040103 at wb4gcs.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Do you have any documentation on how to use them?  I have one that I
>bought to be an internet access point with a verizon card, failed due to
>verizon not complying with the RFCs.  Love the device, but no
>information on ports, etc.  Might want to play with it, or could make it
>available.
>
>Thanks & 73,
>Jim
>wb4gcs at amsat.org
>
>On 5/19/2013 10:45 AM, Jason Rabel wrote:
> > Just a heads up, there are some (8+ @ last count) used Soekris 
> Net4501's for $29 on eBay (Search for: Soekris)... I submitted a bid
> > for $20 each and it was instantly accepted... Don't know how low 
> you can go, from the description the guy wants to get rid of them
> > or they are going in the trash. Seems like a good deal if you are 
> looking to make a little NTP server, especially compared to the
> > retail price for a net4501... ;)
> >
> > I'm not affiliated with the seller in any way, I just love those 
> little net4501's...  I already have 5 of them, I don't know why I
> > just bought 5 more... lol... Now I need more GPS modules!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 23:23:20 -0500
>From: "Bill Hawkins" <bill at iaxs.net>
>To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
>         <time-nuts at febo.com>
>Subject: [time-nuts] Downsizing dilemma, HP 3335A
>Message-ID: <4CEF4D81A05C4700B940876D2045B1AB at system072>
>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
>Group,
>
>I have three HP 3335A synthesizers, one with the telecom connector
>option.
>At one time two of them worked, but not now. All power up.
>
>It is time to downsize for the move to a retirement living community.
>Should I try to repair these units, or have they become curiosities
>because they only go to 80 MHz?
>
>Bill Hawkins
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:26:50 -0700
>From: Chris Albertson <albertson.chris at gmail.com>
>To: wb4gcs at amsat.org, Discussion of precise time and frequency
>         measurement     <time-nuts at febo.com>
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Net4501's cheap...
>Message-ID:
>         <CABbxVHutT28H=WZX0tc-+Gw0NfkiX8yqg0PXdfcsuQmVWLT=+Q at mail.gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>What do you need to know?   Most of the details will depend on what
>software you are running on it.  Which operating system.  After it boots up
>you can look in one of the log files.  But details vary with the OS.
>
>
>On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Jim Sanford <wb4gcs at wb4gcs.org> wrote:
>
> > Do you have any documentation on how to use them?  I have one that I
> > bought to be an internet access point with a verizon card, failed due to
> > verizon not complying with the RFCs.  Love the device, but no information
> > on ports, etc.  Might want to play with it, or could make it available.
> >
> > Thanks & 73,
> > Jim
> > wb4gcs at amsat.org
> >
> > On 5/19/2013 10:45 AM, Jason Rabel wrote:
> >
> >> Just a heads up, there are some (8+ @ last count) used Soekris Net4501's
> >> for $29 on eBay (Search for: Soekris)... I submitted a bid
> >> for $20 each and it was instantly accepted... Don't know how low you can
> >> go, from the description the guy wants to get rid of them
> >> or they are going in the trash. Seems like a good deal if you are looking
> >> to make a little NTP server, especially compared to the
> >> retail price for a net4501... ;)
> >>
> >> I'm not affiliated with the seller in any way, I just love those little
> >> net4501's...  I already have 5 of them, I don't know why I
> >> just bought 5 more... lol... Now I need more GPS modules!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> >> 
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >>
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/**
> > 
> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts<https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts>
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
>
>
>--
>
>Chris Albertson
>Redondo Beach, California
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 23:05:39 -0600 (MDT)
>From: "Don Latham" <djl at montana.com>
>To: wb4gcs at amsat.org, "Discussion of precise time and frequency
>         measurement"    <time-nuts at febo.com>
>Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Net4501's cheap...
>Message-ID:
>         <ce3a3a24349a124378bc032b1265fde6.squirrel at webmail.montana.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>There is now one left for $129, gee free shipping. Do yourself a favor
>and get a $35 RaspberryPi and a $12 5-port net switch.
>Don
>
>
>
>Jim Sanford
> > Do you have any documentation on how to use them?  I have one that I
> > bought to be an internet access point with a verizon card, failed due to
> > verizon not complying with the RFCs.  Love the device, but no
> > information on ports, etc.  Might want to play with it, or could make it
> > available.
> >
> > Thanks & 73,
> > Jim
> > wb4gcs at amsat.org
> >
> > On 5/19/2013 10:45 AM, Jason Rabel wrote:
> >> Just a heads up, there are some (8+ @ last count) used Soekris
> >> Net4501's for $29 on eBay (Search for: Soekris)... I submitted a bid
> >> for $20 each and it was instantly accepted... Don't know how low you
> >> can go, from the description the guy wants to get rid of them
> >> or they are going in the trash. Seems like a good deal if you are
> >> looking to make a little NTP server, especially compared to the
> >> retail price for a net4501... ;)
> >>
> >> I'm not affiliated with the seller in any way, I just love those
> >> little net4501's...  I already have 5 of them, I don't know why I
> >> just bought 5 more... lol... Now I need more GPS modules!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> >> To unsubscribe, go to
> >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts at febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
>
>--
>"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
>are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
>De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century.
>"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
>Ghost in the Shell
>
>
>Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
>Six Mile Systems LLP
>17850 Six Mile Road
>POB 134
>Huson, MT, 59846
>VOX 406-626-4304
>www.lightningforensics.com
>www.sixmilesystems.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>time-nuts mailing list
>time-nuts at febo.com
>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>
>End of time-nuts Digest, Vol 106, Issue 110
>*******************************************
>
>
>
>-----
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3184/6350 - Release Date: 05/23/13