[time-nuts] Loran

Gerald Chafee gchafee at gmail.com
Fri Nov 15 18:34:22 EST 2013 

I used to do Loran-C timing syncs for the Air force using manual time syncs
on the 3rd cycle of a specific station in a chain. it was quite the ordeal.

While doing that I came across a Loran C timing receiver and a Loran C
simulator that was made by a company ( can't remember the name - wasn't
Austron). Never could figure it out, or find the company, but I still have
both items. maybe I can still figure it out since it was just a simple
100KHz receiver with timing circuitry.

Jerry


On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com> wrote:

> Gerald
> The new roll of the thing called LORAN has nothing to do with location any
> longer. But we all still call it LORAN. Old habit. Its new purpose if the
> government funds it is PNT dissemination along with some ability to send
> messages. In theory to backup GPS for timing.
> UrsaNAV did pick up at least 1 facility in NJ and they might have purchased
> another 1 or 2 but have no need to purchase all of the old sites.
> They produced a ppt that showed as little as 1 site would cover the US and
> two really would fill in the blanks. some place semi-central.
>
> For us time nuts even the single central site would be useful as long as
> they stick to the current transmission format. Internationally they might
> have to stick to this modulation method since Europe uses the frequency for
> true eLORAN. I don't really know. But I am not complaining as the old
> receivers have all of there green lock lights on at 1745. Guess no one went
> for beer. Though they might shut down at 0000 utc I have seen them do that.
>
> The benefit of all of this is as an alternate frequency source that in
> Boston has always been far superior to the 60 Khz WWVB transmission. In
> fairness to WWVB if I had a magical processor as good as the LORAN
> receivers/processors, maybe it would do far better then what I see on the
> wwvb receivers I have. I just do not believe it would equal the LORAN
> quality.
>
> Currently all of the receivers are saying the signal strength is the same
> as last night. Though in actually listening to the signal I have a healthy
> dose of man made noise today.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Gerald Chafee <gchafee at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if they are using original antennas for chains that
> > existed during the heyday of LORAN C?
> >
> > I remember driving past the tower at the Seneca Army Depot in Romulus,
> NY ,
> > and I was in awe of the size of the tower. I know the Coast Guard, then
> > Homeland Security had control of the site. I am not sure if the tower is
> > still there since some of the sites were decommissioned.
> >
> > I was wondering if they will be using the Master/Slave system, or do they
> > have a new way to triangulate?
> >
> > I know the worry of GPS jamming has caused a lot of worry. I was
> wondering
> > if cell sites that absolutely need super accurate timing will have LORAN
> as
> > a backup timing source? I know if they lose GPS, they lose their ability
> to
> > hand off to adjacent working cells (Island Cell Effect?).
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Bill Riches <bill.riches at verizon.net
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > I stand corrected!  Wildwood is up at 1615 now - 30/9!  Beer call at
> > 1700!
> > >
> > > My last comment was in regards to the last evening activity that was
> not
> > > Wildwood.
> > >
> > > 73,
> > >
> > > Bill, WA2DVU
> > > Cape May
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: time-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces at febo.com]
> On
> > > Behalf Of paul swed
> > > Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:49 PM
> > > To: David McGaw; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran
> > >
> > > And by the way it is still on as of 2pm est.
> > > Now the real test. They seem to go home for the weekend and beer time
> is
> > > typically 5pm or so.
> > > Will it still be on at 8pm? Curious minds want to know.
> > > Regards
> > > Paul
> > > WB8TSL
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 1:47 PM, paul swed <paulswedb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I can only go by the press release that was above and would guess its
> > > > wildwood.
> > > > Its clearly not in ma. That used to hit me with a heck of a signal
> > > > 1000uv plus
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:22 AM, David McGaw
> > > <n1hac at alum.dartmouth.org>wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Can you tell whether it is coming from Wildwood or another site?
> > > >>
> > > >> David N1HAC
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 11/14/13 9:02 PM, paul swed wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Sounds pretty good not banging in here like the old chain did.
> > > >>> austron 2100 says 38db
> > > >>> srs700 says 47 rcvr gain and 25 db noise margin.
> > > >>> hp3856b's says -53dbm or 500uv.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Regards
> > > >>> Paul
> > > >>> WB8TSL
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 5:40 PM, J. Forster <jfor at quikus.com>
> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>  What's the signal strength like?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -John
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> =======
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>  Oh that is indeed interesting that they are moving forward.
> > > >>>>> The GRI is 89700.
> > > >>>>> SRS700 locked and looking good.
> > > >>>>> Just brought the Austron 2100 and 2100F on line.
> > > >>>>> The 2100 is tied to the local RB and the f is tied to the HP3801.
> > > >>>>> The SRS700 looks at the RB.
> > > >>>>> I pulled the Austron 2000 out of the rack several months ago.
> > > >>>>> Needed the space.
> > > >>>>> Regards
> > > >>>>> Paul
> > > >>>>> WB8TSL. Near Boston.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Tom Van Baak <
> tvb at leapsecond.com>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Well lets see. Just warming up the srs700.
> > > >>>>>>> UrsaNav must have received some support $ Regards Paul WB8TSL
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Paul,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> See below, via Adobe OCR on a JPG press release:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> ---
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> From: "UrsaNav Press Contact"
> > > >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:31 AM
> > > >>>>>> Subject: UrsaNav Accepts eLoran Transmitter from Nautel
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> UrsaNav News Release November 14, 2013
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Two Companies - One Dream
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> UrsaNav Accepts Delivery of First Production Nautel NlAO eLoran
> > > >>>>>> Transmitter
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Bedford, Massachusetts, USA.- After extensive Final Acceptance
> > > >>>>>> Testing at Nautel's Hackett's Cove, NS facility, UrsaNav has
> > > >>>>>> accepted delivery of the first production NL40 Loran-C and
> > > >>>>>> Enhanced Loran (eLoran) transmitter.
> > > >>>>>> This
> > > >>>>>> seventh generation Loran transmitter technology is the
> > > >>>>>> culmination of over six years of collaborative development
> > > >>>>>> between the two companies.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> The transmitter successfully met or exceeded all of the
> > > >>>>>> requirements of the u.s. Coast Guard "Specification of the
> > > >>>>>> Transmitted Loran-C Signal".
> > > >>>>>> Testing was conducted into a simulated antenna matching the
> > > >>>>>> characteristics of a u.s. Coast Guard "standard" 625-foot
> > > >>>>>> Top-Loaded Monopole. The NL-Series transmitters are capable of
> > > >>>>>> transmitting Loran-C, eLoran, Chayka, and eChayka in any
> > > >>>>>> combination at power levels exceeding one megawatt.
> > > >>>>>> They
> > > >>>>>> are qualified for today, and prepared for tomorrow.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> UrsaNav's President, Charles Schue, shown accepting the
> > > >>>>>> transmitter from Nautel's President, Peter Conlon, commented:
> > > >>>>>> "Resilient PNT begins with complementary technologies, layered
> > > >>>>>> one upon the other in such a way that the user is ensured
> > > >>>>>> improved continuity of operations over a sole-source solution.
> > > >>>>>> eLoran is the terrestrial coprimary complement to GNSS, and our
> > > >>>>>> technology makes eLoran the most economical, efficient, and
> > > >>>>>> wide-area alternative when GNSS is not available."
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> UrsaNav provides the world's most advanced solutions for Low
> > > >>>>>> Frequency Alternative Positioning, Navigation, Timing, and Data,
> > > >>>>>> including high-performance eLoran Receiver, Command and Control,
> > > >>>>>> and Differential Loran technology. We are the exclusive, global,
> > > >>>>>> reseller of Nautel's industry-leading, high-power, Low Frequency
> > > >>>>>> transmitters for Loran/eLoran and Chayka/eChayka.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> ---
> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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