[time-nuts] looking for SMT oscillator SC cut, with no oven

Sun Aug 30 08:55:52 EDT 2015

Hi

> On Aug 29, 2015, at 10:19 PM, Alex Pummer <alex at pcscons.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> go to your local city library get membership[ here in California it is free] , and ask them to get from the university  library, it will take some  time than they cal you the your stuff is there, you could have it for  four weeks if you need you could extend it for an other four weeks,

Yes indeed that does work. You have drawing rights on 
a limited number of items that way. Around here it’s typically
a handfull. If you have one target paper and know it’s exact origin
that is an approach that works well. 

If I’m digging for a specific paper (like the one that started
all of this), I’m after something that is referenced in the the bibliography
of one of the papers mentioned in the bibliography (taken 1 to 5 layers deep). 
To do that sort of thing, I need the first batch of papers from the one
I’ve found. Hmmm … over limit. Then I need the 2 through N batches.
I just don’t have that kind of patience and really don’t expect others to 
have it either. 

> the engineering library of the university of Berkeley is open to everybody, you can not take it out without additional formality, but you could read, copy, scan it there,
> I assume that works similarly in your state/ city/ university library,

That’s the wall I hit around here. Because of what ever rules, the local university libraries are not public. 
One is a traditional private university with it’s own approach to everything. The other is  … errr … a military 
base. In both cases, not a big deal. Neither one has an engineering library. The first one is not tax supported, the 
other one very much is. In both cases “I get it”.  

> If you have a specific title, let me know, it will not happen right away, since I am working on five projects [for clients] also I am [life] member of the IEEE, where is not everything free any more, but people are reasonable

What we are after are the original papers by Beckman (and others) on 
the AT cut frequency vs temperature curves and the orientation angles
associated with them. My guess has always been that they are in the 
Frequency Control Symposium stuff. They easily could be in an publication
from the IEEE or it’s predecessors. Before the FCS joined up with the IEEE 
that was the way some authors preferred to do things. 

The terrible thing is that I’ve *seen* a copy of the paper. It belonged to a
co-worker and I used it to generate the code to fill pretty graphs in one 
of our catalogs. That was 30 years ago …. There are also a large group
of papers with various tweaks to the original. As I recall, sorting through
all of those to be able to say “this is the right one” was something that
had took him quite a while.  

With access to all the papers, I’d guess it’s at least an afternoon’s work to 
sort through everything and decide what is what. It would be a bit more if
you haven’t dug into this area before. At that point at least one could say
“this is the paper you want”. 

Now (if the law is obeyed) everybody else has to head off to here or there
to try to get a copy. For those associated with a university no big deal. For 
the other 99% of us .. back to the top of this page. 

Please - don’t take this as an attack on outfits like the IEEE or any of the rest
of these people. They *do* need a way to stay in existence. They serve a very 
real function. There is no practical way to “just let Bob” have a free look and 
still protect their varied interests. 

Bob

> 73
> KJ6UHN
> Alex
> On 8/29/2015 9:52 AM, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2015, at 9:25 AM, Attila Kinali <attila at kinali.ch> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 11:29:21 -0400
>>> Bob Camp <kb8tq at n1k.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> there's some C code out there that models AT (and also other cuts).. I'll
>>>> see if I can find it. I found it in a PhD dissertation on designing
>>>> temperature compensation neworks, as I recall.
>>>> The formulas and everything *are* out there. Last time I used them I pulled
>>>> them out of IEEE papers. Since I don’t have
>>>> access to them at home, (and suspect most of us are in that boat) - citing
>>>> one didn’t seem like a useful thing to do. There
>>>> are a bunch of fiddly little things about the constants used that vary a bit
>>>> from paper to paper. Since those variations are
>>>> almost all in the “past what you can measure” range for the raw quarts, it’s
>>>> not real easy to work out who is right and who is wrong.
>>> There are at least 4 or 5 people on this mailinglist who have access to IEEE
>>> that i know about. One can get access to IEEE (springer and others) by using
>>> the library of a nearby technical university, or one that has a strong
>>> engineering department.
>> …… or by begging … :)
>> 
>> The nearest university that has a reasonable library is about a 6 hour round
>> trip drive. That by its self is not the main problem.
>> 
>> I’m not going to blend in as a “typical looking student” if I start wandering
>> around poking at things. I’ve already have empirical evidence that there is about a
>> 90% chance of getting asked “may I see your ID?” as I walk through the door. Fortunately
>> that was back a bit when I *did* have an ID. Yes I could sign up for another course
>> and remedy that situation. Yes there may be other universities with more open policies.
>> I have not found one around here.
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> Alternatively, one can always send a mail to the author. Most are quite
>>> glad to hand out their papers.
>>> 
>>> Of course, asking is always a good idea, no matter whom ;-)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 			Attila Kinali
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> I must not become metastable.
>>> Metastability is the mind-killer.
>>> Metastability is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
>>> I will face my metastability.
>>> I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
>>> And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
>>> Where the metastability has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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