[time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review
KA2WEU at aol.com
KA2WEU at aol.com
Sun Aug 7 19:24:11 EDT 2016
Good evening Magnus
Nice hearing again from you and I hate to disagree with you but you
are wrong , Leeson did not add the flicker effect , this was done by my
friend Dieter Scherer of HP, I added the neglected VCO term (pushing) and
Everett the important effect of unloaded vs loaded Q. Please take a look at the
complete modern liner noise equation to be found in
https://www-docs.tu-cottbus.de/mikrowellentechnik/public/rohde/rohde2011ulr_
habil_presentation.pdf
see page 9 !
A complete up to date non-linear noise model for LC oscillators and its
general validation can be found in
https://depositonce.tu-berlin.de/bitstream/11303/1306/1/Dokument_16.pdf
73 de Ulrich
In a message dated 8/7/2016 6:30:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org writes:
Well, it is nothing but his personal recollection of the events, so that
is expected. It represents one voice of several. Better have that on
record than it being lost. But it is not the complete story. That would
have to be collected over a much larger set of people.
BTW. Ref 44 in this paper is one of Edson's articles.
I've read Chapter 15 of Edson's book, and it provides a model, but fail
to include flicker noise, which is in Leesons model. It is a
straight-forward extension thought. I don't have access to any of his
articles, except the one-page letter that Rick linked.
There is surely more work to be done to build a more comprehensive
detail of events, show where ideas came up, was re-invented,
incorporated and extended. Edson clearly contributed.
Cheers,
Magnus
On 08/07/2016 06:32 PM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts wrote:
> Here is another comment ;
>
>
> this paper is too self-centered for it to be the reliable historical
> report which we would like.
> It seems that Edson did some great work before,
>
>
> 73 de Ulrich , and I agree with the statement
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/vto.pdf
>
> Vacuum tube oscillators
>
>
>
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2016 9:02:43 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> time-nuts at febo.com writes:
>
> Good morning,
>
> yes I saw the reference but he did not point out what it was or
> function,
> This paper is more about people and events and very little since
.......
>
> Ulrich
>
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2016 2:26:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> michaeljwouters at gmail.com writes:
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34 AM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
> <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
>
>> Leeson produced a somewhat random selection of papers , omitting
> important
>> things like the sapphire based best in the word . This was not even
>> referenced .
>
> The reference [145] at the end of the sentence that mentions sapphire
> oscillators also discusses a hybrid photonic-microwave oscillator that
> incorporates a room-temperature sapphire oscillator so I think he
> tried to cover both subjects with that single reference.
>
> The paper has a misleading title. It suggests that it is a history of
> the last 50 years, when it is about events roughly 50 years ago. The
> abstract makes this clear though. So I didn't really expect to read
> much about developments past 1970.
>
> Cheers
> Michael
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34 AM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
> <time-nuts at febo.com> wrote:
>> Some of the cited references are poor, modern non-linear mathematic
is
>
> kind
>> of omitted . After all the oscillator phase noise speculation, I
would
>> have really liked to see at last a reference about the most modern
>> measurements techniques and it validation. How do you calibrate a
> phase
> noise test
>> system.
>>
>> Leeson produced a somewhat random selection of papers , omitting
> important
>> things like the sapphire based best in the word . This was not even
>> referenced .
>>
>> I think he is really out of it .
>>
>> 73 de N1UL
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/5/2016 7:11:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> john at miles.io writes:
>>
>>>
>>> Very selected and incomplete references and the equally important
>>> question
>>> of measurements strangely not covered
>>>
>>> 73 de N 1 UL
>>>
>>
>> I suppose he could write an equally-lengthy article on measurements
> alone,
>> but leaving out the post-1970s history entirely was a little
>> disappointing. It was strange to hit "ctrl-f Rohde" and see only
one
> reference in the
>> bibliography. Same for "Hewlett." "Rubiola" brings up one hit (but
no
>> citations) and "Stein" brings up none at all.
>>
>> -- john, KE5FX
>> Miles Design LLC
>>
>>
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