[time-nuts] Oscillator Phase Noise: A 50-Year Review

KA2WEU at aol.com KA2WEU at aol.com
Sun Aug 7 19:24:11 EDT 2016


Good evening  Magnus 
 
 Nice hearing again from you  and I hate to  disagree  with  you but you 
are wrong , Leeson did not add the flicker effect ,  this was done by my 
friend  Dieter Scherer of HP, I added the  neglected VCO term (pushing) and 
Everett the important  effect of unloaded  vs loaded Q. Please take a look at the 
complete  modern  liner noise  equation  to be found in
 
https://www-docs.tu-cottbus.de/mikrowellentechnik/public/rohde/rohde2011ulr_
habil_presentation.pdf
 
see page 9 !
 
A complete  up to date non-linear noise model for LC oscillators  and its 
general validation  can be found in 
 
https://depositonce.tu-berlin.de/bitstream/11303/1306/1/Dokument_16.pdf
 
73 de Ulrich 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 8/7/2016 6:30:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
magnus at rubidium.dyndns.org writes:

Well, it  is nothing but his personal recollection of the events, so that 
is  expected. It represents one voice of several. Better have that on 
record  than it being lost. But it is not the complete story. That would 
have to  be collected over a much larger set of people.

BTW. Ref 44 in this  paper is one of Edson's articles.

I've read Chapter 15 of Edson's book,  and it provides a model, but fail 
to include flicker noise, which  is in Leesons model. It is a 
straight-forward extension thought.  I don't have access to any of his 
articles, except the one-page letter  that Rick linked.

There is surely more work to be done to build a more  comprehensive 
detail of events, show where ideas came up, was re-invented,  
incorporated and extended. Edson clearly  contributed.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 08/07/2016 06:32 PM, KA2WEU---  via time-nuts wrote:
> Here is another comment ;
>
>
>  this paper is too self-centered for it to be the  reliable  historical
> report which we would like.
> It seems that Edson did  some great work before,
>
>
> 73 de Ulrich , and I agree  with the statement
>
>
>
>
>
>  http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/vto.pdf
>
> Vacuum tube  oscillators
>
>
>  
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>  xxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2016 9:02:43 A.M.  Eastern Daylight Time,
> time-nuts at febo.com writes:
>
>  Good  morning,
>
> yes I saw the reference  but he did  not point out what it  was or
> function,
> This paper is  more about people and events and very  little since   
.......
>
> Ulrich
>
>
> In a message  dated  8/6/2016 2:26:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>  michaeljwouters at gmail.com writes:
>
> On Sat,  Aug 6, 2016 at  9:34  AM, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
>  <time-nuts at febo.com>   wrote:
>
>> Leeson  produced a somewhat random selection of papers  ,  omitting
>  important
>> things like the sapphire based best in  the word  .  This was not even
>> referenced  .
>
>  The  reference [145] at the  end of the sentence that mentions   sapphire
> oscillators also discusses a  hybrid  photonic-microwave  oscillator that
> incorporates a  room-temperature  sapphire oscillator  so I think he
> tried  to cover both subjects with that  single  reference.
>
>  The paper has a misleading title. It suggests that it   is a history  of
> the last 50 years, when it is about events roughly 50   years  ago. The
> abstract makes this clear though. So I didn't  really  expect to  read
> much about developments  past   1970.
>
> Cheers
>  Michael
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:34  AM,   KA2WEU--- via time-nuts
> <time-nuts at febo.com>  wrote:
>>  Some of  the cited references are poor, modern  non-linear mathematic  
is
>
> kind
>>  of  omitted . After all the oscillator   phase noise  speculation,  I 
would
>> have really liked to see at  last a reference   about the most modern
>> measurements   techniques and it  validation.  How do you calibrate a
> phase
> noise   test
>> system.
>>
>> Leeson  produced a  somewhat random  selection of papers , omitting
>  important
>>  things like the  sapphire based best in the  word . This was not even
>>   referenced   .
>>
>> I think he is really out of it    .
>>
>> 73 de  N1UL
>>
>>
>>
>> In a  message   dated 8/5/2016 7:11:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>   john at miles.io  writes:
>>
>>>
>>> Very  selected and  incomplete  references and the equally     important
>>>  question
>>> of measurements  strangely  not   covered
>>>
>>> 73 de  N 1   UL
>>>
>>
>>  I suppose he  could  write an  equally-lengthy article on measurements
>  alone,
>> but leaving  out the  post-1970s history entirely  was a  little
>>  disappointing.  It was strange   to hit "ctrl-f Rohde"  and see  only 
one
> reference in  the
>> bibliography.   Same for    "Hewlett."  "Rubiola" brings up one hit (but 
no
>>  citations)   and  "Stein" brings up none at  all.
>>
>> -- john,   KE5FX
>> Miles  Design  LLC
>>
>>
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