[volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)

John Phillips john.phillips0 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 7 23:10:07 EST 2013


I read most of the thread. This could be a pre-production unit. The errors
indicate it could need both the in guard and out guard CPUs.  The in guard
unit (03458-05503) I think  is involved with the A/D conversion and that is
where the flatness error is most likly coming from.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:48 PM, John Phillips <john.phillips0 at gmail.com>wrote:

> That is what I get for jumping in without reading the thread.
> I have sent 2 or 3 units in for them to repair...
> When they quit selling part I was forced to junk or have them repair.
> What parts are needed?
>
>
> on Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:12 PM, Tom Miller <tmiller11147 at verizon.net>wrte:
>
>> They might not take it in without a serial number.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Phillips" <
>> john.phillips0 at gmail.com>
>> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 9:34 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)
>>
>>
>>  You should be able to any unit repaired by Agilent as long as all the
>>> parts
>>> are there for the $3000 flat rate repair and calibration charge.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:59 PM, J. L. Trantham <jltran at att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Paul,
>>>>
>>>> The 'value' of a 3458A is based on several issues, not the least of
>>>> which
>>>> is
>>>> supply and demand.  You only have to look at theBay to get an idea of
>>>> what
>>>> units are selling for, both working and non-working.  The fact that the
>>>> unit
>>>> passes it's 'Self Test' is not a guarantee that it would be able to be
>>>> calibrated to published performance specs.
>>>>
>>>> Tha Agilent website is very useful in determining an 'upper bound' on
>>>> the
>>>> value.  The 3458A is currently orderable and currently supported.  A new
>>>> 3458A (without options) is available at $9,085 and would come with a
>>>> fresh
>>>> calibration and warranty.
>>>>
>>>> Repair Per Incident is available for $2,660.64.  This means that if you
>>>> have
>>>> a complete unit, they will repair it for that price.  That also comes
>>>> with
>>>> a
>>>> fresh calibration.  I don't know if that price includes all recommended
>>>> upgrades as listed in the Service Notes, of which there are 20, 6 of
>>>> which
>>>> list 'Modification Recommended' and one of which lists 'Modification
>>>> Available'.  Perhaps someone on the forum knows the answer to this.
>>>> Certainly Gary Biermann at Agilent can answer this.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that your unit does not have a serial number sticker but
>>>> instead
>>>> 'MTG PROTO 27' would be concerning as to whether Agilent would consider
>>>> this
>>>> a 'complete 3458A', and thus a candidate for repair, or, rather, a
>>>> 'prototype' or some other descriptor that would imply that it looks
>>>> like a
>>>> 3458A but is really not a 3458A.
>>>>
>>>> Both new and newly calibrated units are candidates to add a Repair
>>>> Agreement, available for $178.68 per year with up to 5 year blocks
>>>> available
>>>> for purchase.
>>>>
>>>> I note you mentioned firmware REV 2,1.  The current firmware is 9,1.
>>>> Therefore it would appear that you have a rather old and probably not
>>>> 'updated' unit.  That plus the 'stored in an attic' history would be
>>>> concerning about the ability to repair the unit without changing several
>>>> assemblies, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming you could get the unit repaired and updated by Agilent,
>>>> complete
>>>> with a fresh calibration, then the maximum value would be $9,085 minus
>>>> $2,660.64 minus what ever value you place on 'new' over 'old'.
>>>>
>>>> Then you are left with an older unit, made in the USA, with no (or
>>>> perhaps
>>>> a
>>>> reduced) warranty as opposed to a new unit, made in Malaysia, with a
>>>> warranty.  The question of whether a 'new' Malaysian unit or an 'old'
>>>> American unit is better is the subject of further discussion and
>>>> speculation.
>>>>
>>>> If the unit cannot be repaired by Agilent, then, in my opinion, the
>>>> value
>>>> goes down and approaches the value of the hardware, transformer, etc.,
>>>> with
>>>> serious questions about the state and reparability of the assemblies,
>>>> particularly given the 'stored in an attic' history.
>>>>
>>>> Gary Biermann would be very helpful in getting the history and
>>>> reparability
>>>> of the unit.  He would be worth contacting about these issues.  He
>>>> works at
>>>> the Loveland Calibration Facility.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@**febo.com<volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com>]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Paul Fox
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 8:54 AM
>>>> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
>>>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] HP3458a available (was Re: hp 3458a advice)
>>>>
>>>> part of me hates to do this, but...   there have been some rule-breakers
>>>> that ignored the "under $350" limit, and now they've ruined it for
>>>> everyone. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> clearly the research i did into prices for "HP3458a, needs repair" was
>>>> woefully inadequate.
>>>>
>>>> i guess the easiest thing to do is to simply remove the "under $350"
>>>> part.  that way everyone's working under the same assumptions.  again,
>>>> sorry.  local buyers still get preference.  (and, if you'd like to chew
>>>> me out for being a bozo, that's fine, but please do it privately.  maybe
>>>> i should have used ebay in the first place.  lesson learned.)
>>>>
>>>> paul
>>>>
>>>> i wrote:
>>>>  > resurrecting a somewhat older thread --
>>>>  >
>>>>  > it's now clear to me that i have little interest in (or time for)
>>>>  > resurrecting my 3458a.  several people on the list were interested in
>>>>  > it when i first brought it up, and you were all very helpful.  i'd
>>>>  > rather not go through the ebay hassle, and i'd rather make it
>>>>  > available to one of you folks first in any case.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > i've put up a small set of pictures, along with a short video of
>>>>  > the startup sequence at http://www.foxharp.net/hp3458a .  re-reading
>>>>  > my original list message (below), i see that my startup video didn't
>>>>  > capture an error message i saw back in october.  so in addition to
>>>> the
>>>>  > "110, Calibration required -- ACAL" message in the video, i guess we
>>>>  > should assume that it sometimes gives "204, "Hardware Failure --
>>>> Flatness
>>>>  > DAC Convergence:  198"
>>>>  >
>>>>  > i haven't opened the unit, and wasn't really planning on it.  if
>>>>  > there's something that you'd like to know that will be clear from
>>>> just
>>>>  > looking, and if it might appreciably change the unit's value for you,
>>>>  > let me know and i'll find a screwdriver and take some more pictures.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > i have two original (i believe) copies of the manual.  no service
>>>> manual.
>>>>  > firmware version is "REV 2,1".
>>>>  >
>>>>  > so how about this:  best offer (by private mail) under $350 gets it,
>>>>  > shipping not included (it looks like shipping will be in the $40 to
>>>> $80
>>>>  > range, once i find a box).  for obvious reasons, a local-to-boston
>>>>  > transaction will be given a lot of preference.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > i'll wait until next wednesday evening (i.e., about a week -- feb 13)
>>>>  > before choosing a lucky recipient, since i hear some people don't
>>>> read
>>>>  > their mail as continuously as i do.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > paul
>>>>  >
>>>>  > i wrote:
>>>>  >  > thanks joe, and to the other couple of people who responded
>>>> privately.
>>>>
>>>>  >  > i need to figure out how much of a project i want this to be, and
>>>> how
>>>>  >  > it ranks against all the other projects that i also don't have
>>>> time
>>>>  >  > for.  :-)
>>>>  >  >
>>>>  >  > i have the full users manual (two copies!), but i don't have
>>>> anything
>>>>  >  > else that speaks GPIB.  i'll play with some of the front panel
>>>>  >  > commands you've suggested, while i think about what to do.
>>>>  thanks!
>>>>  >  >
>>>>  >  > paul
>>>>  >  >
>>>>  >  > j. l. trantham wrote:
>>>>  >  >  > Paul,
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > First, the meter is worth something if nothing other than
>>>> parts.
>>>> It is
>>>>  >  ...
>>>>  >  >  > Good luck.
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > Joe
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > -----Original Message-----
>>>>  >  >  > From: volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com
>>>> [mailto:volt-nuts-bounces@**febo.com <volt-nuts-bounces at febo.com>] On
>>>>  >  >  > Behalf Of Paul Fox
>>>>  >  >  > Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:50 AM
>>>>  >  >  > To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
>>>>  >  >  > Subject: [volt-nuts] hp 3458a advice
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > hi --
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > i'm not a volt-nuts regular, and not even a precision
>>>> measurement
>>>> nut
>>>>  >  >  > at all, but given past discussion in the list archives, i think
>>>> you
>>>>  >  >  > folks might be able to help.
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > i was recently given an HP 3458a multimeter.  the donor
>>>> thought it
>>>>  >  >  > worked when he last used it, but that was quite a long time
>>>> ago,
>>>> and i
>>>>  >  >  > think it was stored in an attic for some time, so i'm not too
>>>>  >  >  > surprised that it now doesn't pass self tests. :-/  he mainly
>>>> wanted
>>>>  >  >  > it out of his house, along with a bunch of other vintage (sadly
>>>> mostly
>>>>  >  >  > non-working) equipment he'd accumulated over the years.
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > the self-test error is:
>>>>  >  >  >     ERRSTR 204, "Hardware Failure -- Flatness DAC Convergence:
>>>> 198"
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > judging from past list traffic, repairs on these units are
>>>>  >  >  > expensive, and it would still need recalibration to be useful,
>>>> and
>>>>  >  >  > there are may be other parts (eeproms?) that may not be good
>>>>  >  >  > any more.  i'm not really interested in pursuing any of this
>>>>  >  >  > myself.
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > what's worse is that the unit doesn't have a serial number.  (i
>>>> assume
>>>>  >  >  > the s/n would normally be obvious on the rear of the unit.)  it
>>>> bears a
>>>>  >  >  > sticker on the back that says "MTG PROTO 27".  i think the unit
>>>> came
>>>>  >  >  > from a place that themselves produced reference standards, and
>>>> they
>>>>  >  >  > may have gotten a very early model from HP to work with.
>>>>  that's
>>>>  >  >  > conjecture.  i haven't opened the unit, so i don't know if
>>>> there
>>>> are
>>>>  >  >  > other clues to its age inside.
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > so:  is this machine useful to anyone?  given the error message
>>>> above,
>>>>  >  >  > are there any measurements at all that it might still get
>>>> correct,
>>>> in
>>>>  >  >  > it's current state?
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >  >  > paul
>>>>  >  >  > =---------------------
>>>>  >  >  >  paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's
>>>> 63.1
>>>> degrees)
>>>>  >  >  >
>>>>  >
>>>>  > =---------------------
>>>>  >  paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 30.0
>>>> degrees)
>>>>  > ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>  > and follow the instructions there.
>>>>
>>>> =---------------------
>>>>  paul fox, pgf at foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 19.2
>>>> degrees)
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Phillips
>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>
>
>
> --
> John Phillips




-- 
John Phillips


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