[volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A

Todd Micallef tmicallef at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 00:17:12 EDT 2014 

Randy,

Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or
do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU
option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra
menus.

If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu
and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting
a temperature measurement.

Todd


On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
> front panel  TEMP? command.  I have played around but I am doing something
> wrong.
>
> thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV.  So far it looks good except for
> > the display.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458".  So blu C    "CAL
> >> 0,3458" "Enter".
> >>
> >> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
> >>
> >> Bill
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> >>
> >>
> >> > Bill,
> >> >
> >> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
> >> >
> >> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
> >> RANGE
> >> > -- CAL secured").  That would be consistent with what you are
> saying.  I
> >> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command.   I guess it's time to
> open
> >> it
> >> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> >
> >> > Randy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Randy:
> >> > >
> >> > >     You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a
> ACAL.
> >> You
> >> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the
> ZERO
> >> > > calibration.  Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
> >> factory
> >> > > that
> >> > > way.  But someone could have changed it in the past.  You can do
> this
> >> from
> >> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command.  But there is a
> jumper
> >> > > inside
> >> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you can
> do
> >> any
> >> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want.  So everything is
> working
> >> as
> >> > > expected.  The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board 66505
> >> or
> >> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside.  Try "3458" first as most are
> >> set
> >> to
> >> > > this password.  Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
> >> inside
> >> of
> >> > > the meter.  You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type screwdrivers
> >> to
> >> > > accomplish this.  Again in the Cal Manual.
> >> > >
> >> > > Bill
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> >> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com
> >
> >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
> >> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > Bill,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
> >> command
> >> and
> >> > > I
> >> > > > get an ERR on the display.  I assume this is not good.  Did I do
> >> this
> >> > > > correctly?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Randy
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Randy:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual.  Make
> >> yourself
> >> a
> >> > > "4
> >> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC.  After
> >> ACAL I
> >> > > now
> >> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC.  I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would
> expect
> >> that
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does.  I do get a
> >> variation
> >> > > of
> >> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations.
> As I
> >> > > remember
> >> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over temperature.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
> >> with
> >> 100
> >> > > PLC
> >> > > > > the statistics show:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Low reading        -70 nVDC
> >> > > > > Mean reading       -28 nVDC
> >> > > > > High reading        +3.5 nVDC
> >> > > > > Total Variation    73 nVDC
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
> >> After
> >> an
> >> > > > > hour
> >> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C.  Then I observed
> >> -000.00023
> >> > > mVDC.
> >> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC.  This
> >> > > particular
> >> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
> >> requiring
> >> > > low
> >> > > > > nanovolts.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support" and
> >> choose
> >> > > > > "Parts".  Then enter in the "Part Number"  "03458-66517" which
> is
> >> the
> >> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
> >> replacement
> >> > > part
> >> > > > > number on the right hand side.  Click on that and you will get
> the
> >> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on.  Looks like
> you
> >> can
> >> > > just
> >> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but
> you
> >> have
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     I needed a new display a few years ago.  At that time you
> >> could
> >> > > order
> >> > > > > just the display for around $80.  Being extremely good at
> removing
> >> and
> >> > > then
> >> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part.  The problem was
> that
> >> the
> >> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed.  It went
> from
> >> > > around
> >> > > > > 1.3
> >> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches.  So I had to bend the pins to fit
> my
> >> > > display
> >> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on the
> PC
> >> > > Board.
> >> > > > > It took hours.  This change is probably why HP/Agilent/Keysight
> >> doesn't
> >> > > let
> >> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the whole
> PC
> >> > > Board
> >> > > > > assembly.  It did work just fine once installed.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >     Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Bill
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> >> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> >> volt-nuts at febo.com>
> >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
> >> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > Interesting note.  After the room cooled down from about 79F
> to
> >> 73F,
> >> > > and
> >> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
> >> reasonable
> >> > > > > value,
> >> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Maybe that is OK?  If so, then the only issue would seem to be
> >> the
> >> > > > > display
> >> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Randy
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
> >> > > <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
> >> After
> >> > > doing
> >> > > > > an
> >> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON,  I short the
> input
> >> leads
> >> > > > > with
> >> > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
> >> > > approximately
> >> > > > > > >  -000.0023 mVDC.  That seems rather high.  I would expect
> the
> >> unit
> >> > > to
> >> > > > > short
> >> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during
> the
> >> > > ACAL.
> >> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Thanks,
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Randy
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
> >> > > <richiem5683 at gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on your
> >> > > > > measurements
> >> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
> >> > > measurements,
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last
> use.
> >> The
> >> > > > > autocal
> >> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do
> cal
> >> on
> >> > > > > everything
> >> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is. I
> >> just
> >> > > got
> >> > > my
> >> > > > > 3458
> >> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me --
> warmed
> >> it
> >> > > up,
> >> > > > > then
> >> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke 5700,
> >> aided
> >> > > by
> >> > > > > an
> >> > > > > HP
> >> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board (no
> >> > > "exchange"
> >> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
> >> changed)
> >> and
> >> > > > > also
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap RAM
> >> chips.
> >> > > I
> >> > > > > did
> >> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
> >> complete,
> >> > > > > since
> >> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed all
> >> > > incoming
> >> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
> >> process
> >> of
> >> > > any
> >> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module is a
> >> good
> >> > > > > thing.
> >> > > > > The
> >> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
> >> 1ppm/year.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for it
> >> --
> >> and
> >> > > > > that
> >> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal lasts
> >> until
> >> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under
> $400
> >> > > > > including
> >> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
> >> first-time
> >> > > > > cals;
> >> > > > > my
> >> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need to
> >> send
> >> it
> >> > > for
> >> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10
> minutes
> >> and
> >> > > you
> >> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
> >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
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> >> > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
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