[volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A

Randy Evans randyevans2688 at gmail.com
Mon Aug 18 01:11:46 EDT 2014


Todd,

I am very new to the 3458 so much of it is slowly unfolding mystery to me
(I'm a three day wonder).  I went to the menu and selected FULL and then
TEMP? appeared.  I am not sure where to find this but it's probably in the
manual somewhere.  I will slowly uncover these secrets but it's frustrating
at times.  Easy once you know it.

Thanks for the help, Todd.

Randy


On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 9:17 PM, Todd Micallef <tmicallef at gmail.com> wrote:

> Randy,
>
> Do you mean that you can select it, but it won't give you a temperature? Or
> do you mean that you can't find it in the menu? If you go to the MENU
> option, select FULL or something like that. It should enable all the extra
> menus.
>
> If you can see it, I believe all you have to do is find it under the menu
> and hit Enter. I have tested mine and have never had an issue with getting
> a temperature measurement.
>
> Todd
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Can someone explain to me how to read the internal temperature using the
> > front panel  TEMP? command.  I have played around but I am doing
> something
> > wrong.
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Randy Evans <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > That worked! Now it reads 000.00030mV.  So far it looks good except for
> > > the display.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Randy
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> You need a comma "," between the "0" and the "3458".  So blu C    "CAL
> > >> 0,3458" "Enter".
> > >>
> > >> See pg. # 64 of the CAL Manual for the syntax.
> > >>
> > >> Bill
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > >> To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <volt-nuts at febo.com>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:25 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Bill,
> > >> >
> > >> > You are very helpful and I really appreciate it.
> > >> >
> > >> > I entered BLUE-C-03458 and I still get the ERR message (106, "OUT OF
> > >> RANGE
> > >> > -- CAL secured").  That would be consistent with what you are
> > saying.  I
> > >> > guess its no reason to panic yet.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not sure how to use the SECURE command.   I guess it's time to
> > open
> > >> it
> > >> > up but I will probably have to get some PosiDrive screwdrivers.
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >
> > >> > Randy
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Randy:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >     You are doing a ZERO calibration on the meter rather than a
> > ACAL.
> > >> You
> > >> > > have to give it a password after the "0" and then it will do the
> > ZERO
> > >> > > calibration.  Usually the password is "3458" and comes from the
> > >> factory
> > >> > > that
> > >> > > way.  But someone could have changed it in the past.  You can do
> > this
> > >> from
> > >> > > the front panel menu using the SECURE command.  But there is a
> > jumper
> > >> > > inside
> > >> > > the 3458A which disables the request for a password so that you
> can
> > do
> > >> any
> > >> > > CAL or reset the password to what you want.  So everything is
> > working
> > >> as
> > >> > > expected.  The jumper is JM600 on the outguard processor board
> 66505
> > >> or
> > >> > > 66515 on the left of the meter inside.  Try "3458" first as most
> are
> > >> set
> > >> to
> > >> > > this password.  Read the Calibration Manual pg. #8 for how to get
> > >> inside
> > >> of
> > >> > > the meter.  You will need two sizes of a PosiDrive type
> screwdrivers
> > >> to
> > >> > > accomplish this.  Again in the Cal Manual.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Bill
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > >> > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> volt-nuts at febo.com
> > >
> > >> > > Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:22 AM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Bill,
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > I installed the U-short and executed the BLUE-C-0 front panel
> > >> command
> > >> and
> > >> > > I
> > >> > > > get an ERR on the display.  I assume this is not good.  Did I do
> > >> this
> > >> > > > correctly?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Thanks,
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Randy
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Bill Gold <wpgold3637 at att.net
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > Randy:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     Look at page #23 of the 3458A Calibration Manual.  Make
> > >> yourself
> > >> a
> > >> > > "4
> > >> > > > > Terminal Short" as shown and put it in as shown.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     Before I did an ACAL I had around -000.00025 mVDC.  After
> > >> ACAL I
> > >> > > now
> > >> > > > > read +000.00002 mVDC.  I did the "CAL 0" myself so I would
> > expect
> > >> that
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > > meter should return to a low value, and it does.  I do get a
> > >> variation
> > >> > > of
> > >> > > > > +/- 30 nVDC using 100 PLC and just observing the variations.
> > As I
> > >> > > remember
> > >> > > > > I have never seen a spec on the ZERO stability over
> temperature.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     If I turn on the MATH function and then do 40 measurements
> > >> with
> > >> 100
> > >> > > PLC
> > >> > > > > the statistics show:
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Low reading        -70 nVDC
> > >> > > > > Mean reading       -28 nVDC
> > >> > > > > High reading        +3.5 nVDC
> > >> > > > > Total Variation    73 nVDC
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     So that correlates with my visual observation of 60 nVDC.
> > >> After
> > >> an
> > >> > > > > hour
> > >> > > > > the room had gone up around 1 degree C.  Then I observed
> > >> -000.00023
> > >> > > mVDC.
> > >> > > > > After another ACAL the reading was again +000.00002 mVDC.
> This
> > >> > > particular
> > >> > > > > meter has a negative tempco as the room temp goes up.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     Obviously do an ACAL before any precision measurements
> > >> requiring
> > >> > > low
> > >> > > > > nanovolts.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     Go to the Keysight website and go to "Technical Support"
> and
> > >> choose
> > >> > > > > "Parts".  Then enter in the "Part Number"  "03458-66517" which
> > is
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > replacement "03458-66507" assembly and you will see the
> > >> replacement
> > >> > > part
> > >> > > > > number on the right hand side.  Click on that and you will get
> > the
> > >> > > > > information about the exchange program and so on.  Looks like
> > you
> > >> can
> > >> > > just
> > >> > > > > order this part online and pay for it with a credit card, but
> > you
> > >> have
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > > > create or use an existing login account.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     I needed a new display a few years ago.  At that time you
> > >> could
> > >> > > order
> > >> > > > > just the display for around $80.  Being extremely good at
> > removing
> > >> and
> > >> > > then
> > >> > > > > inserting and soldering I ordered the part.  The problem was
> > that
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > spacing from top to bottom of the pins had changed.  It went
> > from
> > >> > > around
> > >> > > > > 1.3
> > >> > > > > inches to around 1.5 inches.  So I had to bend the pins to fit
> > my
> > >> > > display
> > >> > > > > board and then get something like 72 pins into the holes on
> the
> > PC
> > >> > > Board.
> > >> > > > > It took hours.  This change is probably why
> HP/Agilent/Keysight
> > >> doesn't
> > >> > > let
> > >> > > > > you just get the display anymore but wants you to get the
> whole
> > PC
> > >> > > Board
> > >> > > > > assembly.  It did work just fine once installed.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >     Hope this helps your decision to keep or not.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Bill
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > > > From: "Randy Evans" <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > To: "Discussion of precise voltage measurement" <
> > >> volt-nuts at febo.com>
> > >> > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:36 PM
> > >> > > > > Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] RE "new" 3458A
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Interesting note.  After the room cooled down from about 79F
> > to
> > >> 73F,
> > >> > > and
> > >> > > > > > another ACAL, the meter now reads +000.00035 mVDC, a more
> > >> reasonable
> > >> > > > > value,
> > >> > > > > > although it does bounce around a couple of tenths of a uV.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Maybe that is OK?  If so, then the only issue would seem to
> be
> > >> the
> > >> > > > > display
> > >> > > > > > has some faint pixels, which a new display should fix.
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > Randy
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Randy Evans
> > >> > > <randyevans2688 at gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > The unit seems to be working so far except for one issue.
> > >> After
> > >> > > doing
> > >> > > > > an
> > >> > > > > > > ACAL, and making sure the Auto Zero is ON,  I short the
> > input
> > >> leads
> > >> > > > > with
> > >> > > > > a
> > >> > > > > > > copper wire shunt across the inputs and the reading is
> > >> > > approximately
> > >> > > > > > >  -000.0023 mVDC.  That seems rather high.  I would expect
> > the
> > >> unit
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > > > short
> > >> > > > > > > the input leads internally and force a zero reading during
> > the
> > >> > > ACAL.
> > >> > > > > > > Anyone have any comments on this reading?
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > Randy
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Richard Moore
> > >> > > <richiem5683 at gmail.com>
> > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >> Hi Randy -- sounds like your unit is in cal, based on
> your
> > >> > > > > measurements
> > >> > > > > > >> of DCV and precision 10k resistor.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> Using autocal all is recommended before doing precision
> > >> > > measurements,
> > >> > > > > and
> > >> > > > > > >> I do that if it's been more than a day or two since last
> > use.
> > >> The
> > >> > > > > autocal
> > >> > > > > > >> uses the internal Vref and an internal 10K resistor to do
> > cal
> > >> on
> > >> > > > > everything
> > >> > > > > > >> else, so that tells you what the basic cal procedure is.
> I
> > >> just
> > >> > > got
> > >> > > my
> > >> > > > > 3458
> > >> > > > > > >> back from Loveland, and that's what they did for me --
> > warmed
> > >> it
> > >> > > up,
> > >> > > > > then
> > >> > > > > > >> ran autocal, then measured everything against a Fluke
> 5700,
> > >> aided
> > >> > > by
> > >> > > > > an
> > >> > > > > HP
> > >> > > > > > >> 3325, and another 3458.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> It has been 5 years since I replaced the display board
> (no
> > >> > > "exchange"
> > >> > > > > > >> deal was available then AFAIK, so I don't know what's
> > >> changed)
> > >> and
> > >> > > > > also
> > >> > > > > the
> > >> > > > > > >> NVRAM board, which was dead, with one with the Snap-cap
> RAM
> > >> chips.
> > >> > > I
> > >> > > > > did
> > >> > > > > > >> those replacements, then sent it home for cal, which was
> > >> complete,
> > >> > > > > since
> > >> > > > > > >> all the RAM was new. Now after 5 years, the unit passed
> all
> > >> > > incoming
> > >> > > > > > >> performance tests and was sent back to me without a cal
> > >> process
> > >> of
> > >> > > any
> > >> > > > > > >> kind. This tells me that an old, well-aged Vref module
> is a
> > >> good
> > >> > > > > thing.
> > >> > > > > The
> > >> > > > > > >> 10VDC test had changed by a bit under 5ppm, or roughly
> > >> 1ppm/year.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> They have a cal deal -- use code 1.090 -- press them for
> it
> > >> --
> > >> and
> > >> > > > > that
> > >> > > > > > >> saved me 30% off the normal price. I think this deal
> lasts
> > >> until
> > >> > > > > > >> mid-September, so my recent "cal" ended up at just under
> > $400
> > >> > > > > including
> > >> > > > > > >> shipping. I'm not sure the deal is available on new or
> > >> first-time
> > >> > > > > cals;
> > >> > > > > my
> > >> > > > > > >> unit was in their data bank.
> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >> But this is a long way of saying I don't think you need
> to
> > >> send
> > >> it
> > >> > > for
> > >> > > > > > >> cal -- just push Auto Cal and Enter and wait about 10
> > minutes
> > >> and
> > >> > > you
> > >> > > > > > >> should be good to go.
> > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >> > > > > > >>
> > >> > > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > >
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